Looking for some opinions

[inchrist]

4 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

You misapplied these verses.. Jesus is Lord of all. 

Certainly but Christ is going to break the law doing it.

[Wayne222]

52 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Certainly but Christ is going to break the law doing it.

I don't agree with you. I use to believe the same as you but now,believe different. It's a waste of time to debate with anyone who mind is made up. I am glad I am free from false interpretation. 

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, eileenhat said:

There are two heavens.  2nd Heaven is where the fallen angels are* (and where the stars in our sky reside).

Third Heaven is where God's throne lies (ie. where he resides with Christ, at his right hand, to this very day).

In the Bible it is said that God sits above the firmament (ie. the tent like structure that covers the earth, earth being a a flat structure)**.

It therefore is a real place that man can not see .

We can not see God since a veil was placed between us.  I have looked for exact passages and find a variety of them, but none that says exactly that.  Though I only went through 6 0r 7 of them right now.   We know from Genesis 3:15 that as curse was placed on Adam, thus all men, and that Adam and Eve were changed by their being cast from the Garden (though this 'change' is also shroud in mystery).  But all know that Adam walked with God in the Garden, but never again on earth.  Thus allowing us to understand that while God exists, we can not see him, nor fallen angels or God's angels nor see the 3rd Heaven, even with telescopes.  We just see stars in the sky.

Moses was the last person to see God, and he was changed due to it (ie. his face became bright).  That occurred on earth.

Back to your question now.  Is Heaven a place where we will physically be?

Adam was never in the 3rd Heaven and Rev. 21 also states we will not be in Heaven physically, but in New Jerusalem, on New Earth in 1,000+ years from now.

Many have visited God in his throne room, either by vision, or having been taken out of their bodies, so their souls could visit with him.

All of these visits occurred prior to Jesus's time on earth.

Therefore, it is not a place then that Humans can visit, only souls ( as Rev. 6:9 states souls were under God's throne prior to their resurrection on Earth)***.

My own testimony concurs this as God allowed me to witness 3rd Heaven in a vision a couple of years ago and it was indeed a paradise (though not one you would expect) and no human resided there.  

It has helped me understand these passages, so I assume that is the reason for this wonderful vision, as we have been conditioned against a real 3rd Heaven existing, literally.  But it is indeed 'real' and has a form (a physical reality).

*"The third heaven is mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12:2. Paul says, “I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.” In verse 4, Paul equates the third heaven with “paradise,” the realm where God dwells. If the third heaven is God’s dwelling place, then we could consider the second heaven to be “outer space,” the realm of the stars and planets; and the first heaven to be earth’s atmosphere, the realm of the birds and clouds."

https://www.gotquestions.org/second-heaven.html

**"King James Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:" Isaiah 40:22

***"King James Bible
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

I mostly concur except the flat earth scenario. Michael Heiser does an excellent presentation on this if you would like the link.

He argues some really sound points, mainly that Yahweh did not care about the current world views and that he would have had to give all the ancient writers a degree course in biology and astrophysics to get them to change their Mesopotamian ideas.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Justin Adams

[Justin Adams]

http://drmsh.com/christians-who-believe-the-earth-is-really-flat-does-it-get-any-dumber-than-this/

If you are afraid, then do not watch this excellent bible scholar and renown researcher.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Justin Adams

[inchrist]

3 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

I don't agree with you. I use to believe the same as you but now,believe different. It's a waste of time to debate with anyone who mind is made up. I am glad I am free from false interpretation. 

This is not about my mind made up this is looking at the evidence.

The law is very clear about necromancy.

Your argument falls on the notion because Christ is the Lord he is allowed to break Gods law? In the midst of his transfiguration vision?

 

[Wayne222]

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

This is not about my mind made up this is looking at the evidence.

The law is very clear about necromancy.

Your argument falls on the notion because Christ is the Lord he is allowed to break Gods law? In the midst of his transfiguration vision?

 

Moses talking to Christ not necromancy. That's blatant twisting of scripture..Alnd he was talking to him. It says Moses. If you want to believe the dead spirits are not aware of anything be my guest. Even Samual was brought up from paradise.  And said why have you done this. He was a spirit without a body.

[MorningGlory]

How did this thread go from 'where is my grandma?' to discussing a flat earth?  Amazing.

[inchrist]

20 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Moses talking to Christ not necromancy. That's blatant twisting of scripture..Alnd he was talking to him. It says Moses. 

Necromamcy - the supposed practice of communicating with the dead

Deut 18

And no one should try to talk with someone who has died. ¹² The Lord hates anyone who does these things

I wouldn't call that twisting of scripture....that's clear scripture. 

So now I have to believe Christ practising necromamcy with the disciples.....Christianity is off to a great start here.

  Samual was brought up from paradise.  And said why have you done this. He was a spirit without a body

No, that wasn't Samuel that was a demon disguised as Samuel.

God had explicitly cut off communication between Himself (and by extension, His angels) and Saul

Please note: 1 Samuel 13:14; 28:6 and Isaiah 59:2

Now I must believe that Samual a holyman; is going to act unilaterally behind God's back?

Demons can also do the following 

2 cor 11:14 & 15

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works

Lastly Saul never really saw samuel. Only witch sees "him."

You really going to believe the testimony of a witch summoned the real Samuel?

This is not great evidence to prove immortal soul.

Going back to the vision of Matthew 17:9

The Bible states;

and his face shone like the sun Matt. 17:2

which is exactly how it was after he was glorified when he appeared to the Apostle John Rev. 1:16

God promises that after the resurrection, all the righteous people will shine like the sun Matt. 13:43

And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell 
no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. 
And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

Vision is what it is, a prophetic spiritual insight into what is going to happen in the future.

vision

[vizh-uh n]

noun

1. the act or power of sensing with the eyes; sight.

2. the act or power of anticipating that which will or may come to be:

 

[Wayne222]

4 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Necromamcy - the supposed practice of communicating with the dead

Deut 18

And no one should try to talk with someone who has died. ¹² The Lord hates anyone who does these things

I wouldn't call that twisting of scripture....that's clear scripture. 

So now I have to believe Christ practising necromamcy with the disciples.....Christianity is off to a great start here.

 

 

No, that wasn't Samuel that was a demon disguised as Samuel.

God had explicitly cut off communication between Himself (and by extension, His angels) and Saul

Please note: 1 Samuel 13:14; 28:6 and Isaiah 59:2

Now I must believe that Samual a holyman; is going to act unilaterally behind God's back?

Demons can also do the following 

2 cor 11:14 & 15

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works

Lastly Saul never really saw samuel. Only witch sees "him."

You really going to believe the testimony of a witch summoned the real Samuel?

This is not great evidence to prove immortal soul.

Going back to the vision of Matthew 17:9

The Bible states;

and his face shone like the sun Matt. 17:2

which is exactly how it was after he was glorified when he appeared to the Apostle John Rev. 1:16

God promises that after the resurrection, all the righteous people will shine like the sun Matt. 13:43

And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell 
no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. 
And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

Vision is what it is, a prophetic spiritual insight into what is going to happen in the future.

vision

 

[vizh-uh n]

noun

1. the act or power of sensing with the eyes; sight.

2. the act or power of anticipating that which will or may come to be:

 

Obviously this was present tense. Moses talk with Jesus about what was going to happen to him.  Anyway goodluck with this bad theology. The bible says to have nothing to do with false doctrine. Your Sabbath keeping and putting yourself under the law. Is all of false doctrine. I don't know why you fellowscome to a good Christian board like worthy. You should have a seventh day fellowship board instead of filling this one with false doctrine. Satan tries to deceive with false teachings. You could not stand in a debate with Christian teachers like James white or John MacArthur  or many many others

[inchrist]

17 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Obviously this was present tense. Moses talk with Jesus about what was going to happen to him.  Anyway goodluck with this bad theology. The bible says to have nothing to do with false doctrine. Your Sabbath keeping and putting yourself under the law. Is all of false doctrine. I don't know why you fellowscome to a good Christian board like worthy. You should have a seventh day fellowship board instead of filling this one with false doctrine. Satan tries to deceive with false teachings. You could not stand in a debate with Christian teachers like James white or John MacArthur  or many many others

Yes the vision would be in present tense......because they were actually seeing it

Every time that word vision in NT greek is used in the bible

It always refers to 

the act or power of anticipating that which will or may come to be:

And given the entire context; Christ left no doubt this is about the raising of the dead - resurrection.

However your response made up only 1% of topic 

99% of your reply was made up of personal attack

That is disporportinate; in fact I could actually ask why do people like yourself come to boards like this to only focus on 1% of the topic and 99% attacking the person?

Just a friendly criticism, I don't mean any harm. I would prefer to focus on evidence and 100% on topic 

Edited January 18, 2018 by inchrist