Looking for some opinions

[simplejeff]

6 minutes ago, Jaynee said:

Yes, I have heard they state about the 144,000 only gaining entry to heaven? .. If this was the case, then Satan would clearly win, with the majority of the world going to hell? Nonsense eh?! 

No , not nonsense at all.  No,  not only 144,000,  but yes,  the majority of all people are condemned.  This is truth , from God, throughout all Scripture.

[Jaynee]

15 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

No , not nonsense at all.  No,  not only 144,000,  but yes,  the majority of all people are condemned.  This is truth , from God, throughout all Scripture.

Sorry @simplejeff

The group of Jehovah's who chapped on my door recently stated that they believed only 144,000 faithful Christians would enter the kingdom of heaven. I do not follow the Jehovah Witness ways, as such, so therefore do not know the ins and outs of it all 

[Wayne222]

7 hours ago, inchrist said:

 The Greek word paradeisos is used in eschatological terms of restoration, that God will bring about -Isaiah 51:3.

It is used again in Revelation 2:7 in connection with the tree of life, to be present on the new earth.

There is no suggestion in that verse the term should mean heaven

Time is also relative; death refers to an absolute loss of all consciousness.

 If your consciousness completely ceased today and then you regain consciousness 20 years later; you would experience 20 yrs immediately today the moment you lost consciousness.

As for Lazarus; he was carried by angels; exactly describing what occurs with our resurrection. Which is confirmed when you are resurrected opening up your eyes.

 

 

When scripture repeatedly and clearly states no consciousness no awereness; no knowledge over and over.....the question then needs to ask who really is twisting scripture. 

 

I think you have brought to worthy board false doctrine. I know your from one of the worldwide church of God off shoots. I belonged to ymthat church many years. Most of it is false doctrine.

[Wayne222]

And Paul said he went to the third heaven. He called it paradise. So you seem not to understand clear scriptures. Keep twisting unto your own fall.You won't state which church org you belong too. That says alot.

[simplejeff]

33 minutes ago, Jaynee said:

Sorry @simplejeff

The group of Jehovah's who chapped on my door recently stated that they believed only 144,000 faithful Christians would enter the kingdom of heaven. I do not follow the Jehovah Witness ways, as such, so therefore do not know the ins and outs of it all 

Right and good - YHWH says NOT to listen to the jws, nor other pagan practices, nor study them.

Find out from and in Scripture, what is TRUTH, as YHWH (GOD) permits, by and thru faith in JESUS.

[simplejeff]

7 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

I think you have brought to worthy board false doctrine. I know your from one of the worldwide church of God off shoots. I belonged to ymthat church many years. Most of it is false doctrine.

The worldwide church of God had both true doctrines and false doctrines, like most all churches represented by anyone.

The roman church was the originator of almost all false doctrine, as it continues so today, and thru all the offshoots that did not get free from those yet.

The false teachings you mention, posted on this forum, are yes, likely false (as many are),  but I don't know how anyone can correct them.  (does anyone ever get corrected ?!)

[Wayne222]

Just now, simplejeff said:

The worldwide church of God had both true doctrines and false doctrines, like most all churches represented by anyone.

The roman church was the originator of almost all false doctrine, as it continues so today, and thru all the offshoots that did not get free from those yet.

The false teachings you mention, posted on this forum, are yes, likely false (as many are),  but I don't know how anyone can correct them.  (does anyone ever get corrected ?!)

That is a opinion about the Catholic church. They believe in the trinity in the death and resurrection of Jesus. There are true believers in that church like most church's. I don't believe in the teachings of Herbert W Armstrong. False doctrine about all of the major doctrines. I think most of these posters are from that church or off shoots. Could be living church of God. There all the same.

[simplejeff]

5 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

That is a opinion about the Catholic church.

Everyone who reads Scripture,  to whom YHWH grants even simple understanding,

knows that YHWH is opposed to everything roman catholic in origin.

Yes,  it is the MIND OF CHRIST, HIS WORD, HIS OPINION>  thanks ! 

[Mike 2]

1 hour ago, Jaynee said:

Yes, I have heard they state about the 144,000 only gaining entry to heaven? .. If this was the case, then Satan would clearly win, with the majority of the world going to hell? Nonsense eh?! 

Great points you have stated. So can I ask, if it states that God is "preparing a place/heaven for us" this would mean Heaven is not being worked on just now? If it is not a physical place as of yet? 

Also, do you believe we are in the presence of Jesus when we die? Or we are simply at peace awaiting that day to come? 

Sorry if I have repeated myself at any time

I have wondered about this from time to time. Again our way of thinking automatically defaults to the way we are most familiar with and I sometimes think of something like my room at the resort being prepared for me. Maybe we need to think more along the spiritual lines and what that might look like....think outside the Christian status quo box.

As for being in the presence of Jesus, as believers in him being our Lord and Savior, he already indwells us. We are already in His presence. I guess you're asking whether we will physically see Jesus. I believe so because in the end we will be living on a new earth. God who is spiritual, takes the form of something physical so we can see him in creation.

I don't know how it happens, but I believe that it will seem like we will be in Jesus presence in a nano- second.

By the way...... Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more.  Interesting how the earth and water are in this description but the sky is not mentioned...or is it? Has it been assumed in this discussion that the heaven spoken here is where God is "residing"?? Have we ruled out the heaven as the sky is sometimes described, or the heavens as the stars are described?

[inchrist]

7 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

I think you have brought to worthy board false doctrine. I know your from one of the worldwide church of God off shoots. I belonged to ymthat church many years. Most of it is false doctrine.

Wayne...you making things personal now. You are obsessing over me and now making me the subject by trying to place me in some kind of box. But if you would like to know I came from Catholicism.

Unfortunately that is how fights start by mischaracterizing a person. It's offensive. Can we not have a discussion or do you want to fight? 

Instead scripture is the subject and focus.

His sons come to honor and he does not know it; they are brought low  and he does not perceive it" (Job 14:21)

"For in death there is NO REMEMBRANCE OF YOU; in the grave who will give you thanks?" (Psalm 6:5).

"The DEAD do not praise the LORD, nor any who go down into silence" (Psalm 115:17).

"His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; in that very day his plans perish" (Psalm 146:4)

Now wayne I'm not interested in insults.... please can you harmonize the parable of Lazarus  and the rich man with your doctrine with the above verses of the dead.

Then explain how the parable is not the resurrection?

Again I'll repeat; I'm not interested in further insults.

I am interested in you establishing your doctrine to be true and proving mine  false first, before making such claims about me. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by inchrist