Lead Us Into Tribulation ?

[Daniel 11:36]

"So your saying if one does not hold to a pretribulation rapture he is a deceiver and will die in unbelief?"

 

I am saying that those who deny the Lord's pre-tribulation event and are being deceived or are even false teachers who purposely tell this falsehood

Those who are actually born again know this fact by the holy spirit's teaching

If you do not, then I would suggest that you seek the Lord's holy spirit and learn His truth on the matter 

 

[simplejeff]

6 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Those who are actually born again know this fact by the holy spirit's teaching

Presumptive (which is sinful itself) , and better test the spirit you've been listening to in case you find out it is the wrong spirit, opposed to God's Word.

[simplejeff]

6 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Only personal beliefs are contrary to Jesus teachings , such as being led into temptation by God .

Glad you said that.  

There go your personal beliefs out the window - being contrary to Jesus teachings, as many have already noted.

p.s. not only personal beliefs are contrary to Jesus teachings -

many many many corporate teachings taught by the world church(es) are directly contrary to Jesus also.

[Daniel 11:36]

"Presumptive (which is sinful itself) , and better test the spirit you've been listening to in case you find out it is the wrong spirit, opposed to God's Word."

 

Get real son ..... your studies are flawed

The Lord's pre-tribulation event will take place and you had better believe it

Your ideas are very misdirected to the extent that you sound like a false teacher or are one with purpose

There are many today that discredit Biblical truth as we move closer to the coming tribulation period .... if you continue to do this, you will pay the price 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[IvyRose]

6 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Presumptive (which is sinful itself) , and better test the spirit you've been listening to in case you find out it is the wrong spirit, opposed to God's Word."

 

Get real son ..... your studies are flawed

The Lord's pre-tribulation event will take place and you had better believe it

Your ideas are very misdirected to the extent that you sound like a false teacher or are one with purpose

There are many today that discredit Biblical truth as we move closer to the coming tribulation period .... if you continue to do this, you will pay the price 

Your posts have been very harsh and judgmental concerning this topic.  If people don't believe exactly like you do on this matter then they aren't saved and are false teachers, huh?

 

I am definitely no expert on rapture and don't even really know exactly what pre-tribs believe...I don't know if you think that all Christians will be swept away to the clouds and not have to suffer or not...but if that is what you are saying then, I'd have to disagree because Matthew 24 is pretty explicit on the fact that Christians will have to suffer...As far as the rapture goes... I don't really know for sure, but it does seem we need to arm ourselves in the LORD (put on the whole armor of God) and be prepared to suffer in the last days.  

 

He that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved. 

[iamlamad]

18 minutes ago, IvyRose said:

Your posts have been very harsh and judgmental concerning this topic.  If people don't believe exactly like you do on this matter then they aren't saved and are false teachers, huh?

 

I am definitely no expert on rapture and don't even really know exactly what pre-tribs believe...I don't know if you think that all Christians will be swept away to the clouds and not have to suffer or not...but if that is what you are saying then, I'd have to disagree because Matthew 24 is pretty explicit on the fact that Christians will have to suffer...As far as the rapture goes... I don't really know for sure, but it does seem we need to arm ourselves in the LORD (put on the whole armor of God) and be prepared to suffer in the last days.  

 

He that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved. 

Ivy, perhaps you should do a study on this subject. 1 Thes. chapters 4 & 5 would be a good place to start.

[IvyRose]

9 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Ivy, perhaps you should do a study on this subject. 1 Thes. chapters 4 & 5 would be a good place to start.

Thanks, I will reread and yes, I probably should study the rapture more...However, so far I have been more lead to focus on watching and being ready...We need to live each day like it will be our last.  I know the time of the end is drawing nearer, but my end could be at any time so I guess that is where my focus has been mainly. 

 

As for the rapture, I know we won't face the wrath of God, which to me means his judgment to hell, but we may and probably will have to face the wrath of men before Jesus comes back.  

 

Matthew 24 seems pretty clear to me and I don't think  1Thes. is in disagreement with it...

Matthew 24 says that unless those days be shortened no flesh shall be saved, but for the elect's sake they will be shortened. I think this is where 1Thes. comes in with Jesus returning to shorten those days....The dead in Christ shall rise and then we will all be called up to the clouds. 

 

[iamlamad]

Just now, IvyRose said:

Thanks, I will reread and yes, I probably should study the rapture more...However, so far I have been more lead to focus on watching and being ready...We need to live each day like it will be our last.  I know the time of the end is drawing nearer, but my end could be at any time so I guess that is where my focus has been mainly. 

 

As for the rapture, I know we won't face the wrath of God, which to me means his judgment to hell, but we may and probably will have to face the wrath of men before Jesus comes back.  

 

Matthew 24 seems pretty clear to me and I don't think  1Thes. is in disagreement with it...

Matthew 24 says that unless those days be shortened no flesh shall be saved, but for the elect's sake they will be shortened. I think this is where 1Thes. comes in with Jesus returning to shorten those days....The dead in Christ shall rise and then we will all be called up to the clouds. 

 

If you study Matthew 24, you will find that was Jesus answering the questions of Jewish men about the end of their age. The 70th week of Daniel will be the end of their age, but NOT the end of the age of Grace in which we live. Proof of this is that Jesus mentions the abomination event that will divide Daniel's 70th week. The "gathering" in Matthew 24 is not the rapture, but is a different gathering that will come 7 years later. And if you notice, it gathers from a totally different place. 

When you understand  1 Thes. 5, Paul tells us that the rapture will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord. They will be back to back events that cannot be separated. In other words, the age of Grace or the church age will end with the rapture, and then it will be "The Day of the Lord." That day comes as a thief, because HE comes as a thief - at a time of peace and safety when no one is expecting anything. SUDDENLY with no warning the dead in Christ will fly up. Then those alive and in Christ will fly up. At the same time, SUDDEN DESTRUCTION comes to earth. 

Paul then makes a paradigm: a comparison of two groups of people on earth at that moment in time: those living in the darkness will suffer this sudden destruction, and cannot avoid it - for it will be worldwide. But those living in the light of the gospel will be saved. They will be raptured and get to "live together with Him." (So shall we ever be with the Lord."

I am convinced that Paul's sudden destruction will be a worldwide earthquake caused by the atoms of the dead in Christ coming together suddenly. Matthew wrote, "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened." I think that is when Jesus rose the elders of the Old Covenant from the dead. Adam was surely one of them. When God brought those atoms together, of those bodies long dead, it caused a mighty earthquake. When the dead in Christ rise, the same thing will happen: a worldwide earthquake - Paul's "sudden destruction."

Where in Revelation does Paul's rapture fit? I am convinced this rapture earthquake will be the earthquake at the 6th seal. The 5th seal is about the martyrs of the church age. They are told they must wait for the time of judgment - and that will not come until the full number of martyrs has come in. What would make the very last martyr of the church age? Of course, the rapture. Any martyr after that would be a 70th week martyr.

Therefore, I am convinced Paul tells us his rapture will come pretrib, as the trigger for the start of the Day of the Lord, and then the 70th week of Daniel.

[Last Daze]

6 minutes ago, IvyRose said:

Thanks, I will reread and yes, I probably should study the rapture more...However, so far I have been more lead to focus on watching and being ready...We need to live each day like it will be our last.  I know the time of the end is drawing nearer, but my end could be at any time so I guess that is where my focus has been mainly.

You are being led in the right direction . . . watching and being ready.   Rapture debates tend to generate strife for no good purpose.

 

[IvyRose]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

If you study Matthew 24, you will find that was Jesus answering the questions of Jewish men about the end of their age. The 70th week of Daniel will be the end of their age, but NOT the end of the age of Grace in which we live. Proof of this is that Jesus mentions the abomination event that will divide Daniel's 70th week. The "gathering" in Matthew 24 is not the rapture, but is a different gathering that will come 7 years later. And if you notice, it gathers from a totally different place. 

When you understand  1 Thes. 5, Paul tells us that the rapture will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord. They will be back to back events that cannot be separated. In other words, the age of Grace or the church age will end with the rapture, and then it will be "The Day of the Lord." That day comes as a thief, because HE comes as a thief - at a time of peace and safety when no one is expecting anything. SUDDENLY with no warning the dead in Christ will fly up. Then those alive and in Christ will fly up. At the same time, SUDDEN DESTRUCTION comes to earth. 

Paul then makes a paradigm: a comparison of two groups of people on earth at that moment in time: those living in the darkness will suffer this sudden destruction, and cannot avoid it - for it will be worldwide. But those living in the light of the gospel will be saved. They will be raptured and get to "live together with Him." (So shall we ever be with the Lord."

I am convinced that Paul's sudden destruction will be a worldwide earthquake caused by the atoms of the dead in Christ coming together suddenly. Matthew wrote, "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened." I think that is when Jesus rose the elders of the Old Covenant from the dead. Adam was surely one of them. When God brought those atoms together, of those bodies long dead, it caused a mighty earthquake. When the dead in Christ rise, the same thing will happen: a worldwide earthquake - Paul's "sudden destruction."

Where in Revelation does Paul's rapture fit? I am convinced this rapture earthquake will be the earthquake at the 6th seal. The 5th seal is about the martyrs of the church age. They are told they must wait for the time of judgment - and that will not come until the full number of martyrs has come in. What would make the very last martyr of the church age? Of course, the rapture. Any martyr after that would be a 70th week martyr.

Therefore, I am convinced Paul tells us his rapture will come pretrib, as the trigger for the start of the Day of the Lord, and then the 70th week of Daniel.

Thanks for all the info...I will look into it more...

God bless you

Edited February 15, 2018 by IvyRose