The Times of the Gentiles...Luke 21: 20-28

[Montana Marv]

6 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Why not?  The fourth kingdom was "butchered."  I think the "butcherings" are related.

I would like to split/tear a 100 dollar bill with you, What could you buy with it.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

6 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Why not?  The fourth kingdom was "butchered."  I think the "butcherings" are related

 

You may have a point.  Rome allowed animal sacrifice in Jerusalem during the 1st Century.  Maybe a leader in the near future will re-introduce or allow animal sacrifice in Jerusalem again.  A future animal sacrifice system in Jerusalem would allow it to be stopped mid term thus fulfilling Dan 9:27.  Thanks for the suggestion of animal sacrificing.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

 

You may have a point.  Rome allowed animal sacrifice in Jerusalem during the 1st Century.  Maybe a leader in the near future will re-introduce or allow animal sacrifice in Jerusalem again.  A future animal sacrifice system in Jerusalem would allow it to be stopped mid term thus fulfilling Dan 9:27.  Thanks for the suggestion of animal sacrificing.

In Christ

Montana Marv

And thanks for adding yet another chapter to "Big Sky Dreams" by Montana Marv. 

[Retrobyter]

On 3/13/2018 at 12:51 PM, Montana Marv said:

Roy

The One Seven cannot be butchered. It must remain whole and complete. Either totally fulfilled. Or totally unfulfilled.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Who says? If you can divide between the 69.999...th Week and the 70.000...th Week, then it can be divided ANYWHERE that Scripture dictates! And, in the locations that I've provided, the 70 Weeks were divided between the 69.499...th Week and the last 69.500...th Week. I'm a mathematician, and one thing you learn in mathematics is that real numbers (with decimal amounts) are no different on the number line than are the whole numbers (integers above zero). There is NOTHING in Scripture that demands that these 70 Weeks must be treated as whole numbers. "And in the midst of the week,...." Thus, the Scriptures divide the week where you dare not go!

I'm going to start a thread, possibly in Doctrines or in Bible Archaeology, that speaks to the counting of the 70 Sevens ("Weeks"), i.e.,when they started, when they will end, and what has happened through the years to this time period, starting with WHEN THEY BEGAN. Did you know, for instance, that there is biblical and archaeological evidence that the Second Temple wasn't finished until 350 B.C? That's about 166 years later than what is accepted by most as happened in 516 B.C! And, this new thread is NOT going to use the "360-day year" nonsense. That "Tom-foolery" should NEVER have been introduced into Christian theology!

Edited March 15, 2018 by Retrobyter
to add info re: new thread

[Retrobyter]

On 3/13/2018 at 8:02 PM, Montana Marv said:

You may have a point.  Rome allowed animal sacrifice in Jerusalem during the 1st Century.  Maybe a leader in the near future will re-introduce or allow animal sacrifice in Jerusalem again.  A future animal sacrifice system in Jerusalem would allow it to be stopped mid term thus fulfilling Dan 9:27.  Thanks for the suggestion of animal sacrificing.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Shalom, again, Montana Marv.

As I said before, a true "Sacrifice" cannot be made without the authentication of the One to whom one is trying to sacrifice. If God is not willing to accept such animal sacrifices, then all they are are empty, vain "butcherings." That's it. That's all.

There's a tradition in the Talmud of which you may or may not be aware:

Quote

 

The Miracle of the Red Strip

The second miracle concerns the crimson strip or cloth tied to the Azazel goat (the "scape goat"). A portion of this red cloth was also removed from the goat and tied to the Temple door. Each year the red cloth on the Temple door turned white as if to signify the atonement of another Yom Kippur was acceptable to the Lord. This annual event happened until 30 CE when the cloth then remained crimson each year to the time of the Temple's destruction. This undoubtedly caused much stir and consternation among the Jews. This traditional practice is linked to Israel confessing its sins and ceremonially placing this nation's sin upon the Azazel goat. The sin was then removed by this goat's death. Sin was represented by the red color of the cloth (the color of blood). But the cloth remained crimson that is, Israel's sins were not being pardoned and "made white."

As God told Israel through Isaiah the prophet:

''Come, let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet [crimson], they shall be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as [white] wool'' (Isaiah 1:18).

The clear indication is that the whole community had lost the Lord's attention in relation to something that occurred in 30 CE. The yearly atonement achieved through the typical Yom Kippur observance was not being realized as expected. Atonement apparently was to be gained in some other way. Who or what would provide the atonement for another year?

Concerning the crimson strip though not mentioned in the Scriptures and long before 30 C.E. during the 40 years Simon the Righteous was High Priest, a crimson thread which was associated with his person always turned white when he entered the Temple's innermost Holy of Holies. The people noticed this. Also, they noted that "the lot of the LORD" (the white lot) came up for 40 straight years during Simon's priesthood. They noticed that the "lot" picked by the priests after Simon would sometimes be black, and sometimes white, and that the crimson thread would sometimes turn white, and sometimes not. The Jews came to believe that if the crimson thread turned white, that God approved of the Day of Atonement rituals and that Israel could be assured that God forgave their sins. But after 30 CE, the crimson thread never turned white again for 40 years, till the destruction of the Temple and the cessation of all Temple rituals!

What did the Jewish nation do in 30 CE to merit such a change at Yom Kippur? By some accounts, on April 5, 30 CE (i.e., on the 14th of Nisan, the day of the Passover sacrifice) the Messiah, Yeshua, was cut off from Israel, himself put to death as a sacrifice for sin. To this event there is a transference of the atonement now no longer achieved through the two goats as offered at Yom Kippur. Like an innocent Passover lamb, the Messiah was put to death though no fault was found in Him! But unlike Temple sacrifices or the Yom Kippur events (as detailed above) where sin is only covered over for a time, the Messianic sacrifice comes with the promise of forgiveness of sins through grace given by God to those who accept a personal relationship with Messiah. This is essentially a one time event for each person's lifetime and not a continual series of annual observances and animal sacrifices. The mechanism providing forgiveness of sin changed in 30 CE.

 

(See more at Talmudic Evidence for the Messiah at 30 C.E.)

Whether you put any stock in this or not, many DO, and even sects of the Jews accept this account, although they will not pursue its implication to the conclusion for fear of what it may mean to them.

[Montana Marv]

25 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Who says? If you can divide between the 69.999...th Week and the 70.000...th Week, then it can be divided ANYWHERE that Scripture dictates! And, in the locations that I've provided, the 70 Weeks were divided between the 69.499...th Week and the last 69.500...th Week. I'm a mathematician, and one thing you learn in mathematics is that real numbers (with decimal amounts) are no different on the number line than are the whole numbers (integers above zero). There is NOTHING in Scripture that demands that these 70 Weeks must be treated as whole numbers. "And in the midst of the week,...." Thus, the Scriptures divide the week where you dare not go!

Roy

Prophecy dictates the 70 Sevens are divided into three segments;  1.  7 Sevens,  2.  62 Sevens,  3.  1 Seven.  That is it.  All mathematically true.  All Sevens of the 7 Sevens are whole Sevens,  All Sevens of the 62 Sevens are whole Sevens, this would then dictate that the One Seven is also a whole One Seven.

Like a yardstick.  The midpoint of a 36 inch yardstick is at 18 inches.  You cut and separate the yardstick, you no longer have a yardstick.  The same with the One Seven, you cut and separate the One Seven, you no longer have a One Seven.

In the midst of the week, does not mean dividing or splitting of that Week.  It means the 18 inch point of a yardstick.  18 inches immediately preceding it and 18 inches immediately following it.

So again your mathematics are mute.  I can only report what I see.  And I only  see the 7-Sevens, 62-Sevens and a 1-Seven.  These are all Prophetic.  490 Prophetic Years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Retrobyter]

31 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Roy

Prophecy dictates the 70 Sevens are divided into three segments;  1.  7 Sevens,  2.  62 Sevens,  3.  1 Seven.  That is it.  All mathematically true.  All Sevens of the 7 Sevens are whole Sevens,  All Sevens of the 62 Sevens are whole Sevens, this would then dictate that the One Seven is also a whole One Seven.

Like a yardstick.  The midpoint of a 36 inch yardstick is at 18 inches.  You cut and separate the yardstick, you no longer have a yardstick.  The same with the One Seven, you cut and separate the One Seven, you no longer have a One Seven.

In the midst of the week, does not mean dividing or splitting of that Week.  It means the 18 inch point of a yardstick.  18 inches immediately preceding it and 18 inches immediately following it.

So again your mathematics are mute.  I can only report what I see.  And I only  see the 7-Sevens, 62-Sevens and a 1-Seven.  These are all Prophetic.  490 Prophetic Years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Then, you're REFUSING to see that the Week was divided by YESHUA` ("JESUS") HIMSELF! Just because it is listed as "one week," doesn't mean that it must remain a contiguous unit of seven years! That's JUST LIKE your need to see the whole 70 Weeks as though they were not a whole contiguous unit of 70 Weeks! Wouldn't such a gap mean that you're SKIPPING week 70, week 71, week 72, ... until you get to some future ... oh, I don't know ... maybe week 355? (69+2000/7 rounded up.)

What if I can show you that your 69 Weeks WON'T FIT into human history without some nutball calculations like a 360-day year being thrown into the mix and using Artaxerxes' edict as the starting point? That's one importance of the thread I plan to start.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Retrobyter

[Montana Marv]

15 hours ago, Last Daze said:

And thanks for adding yet another chapter to "Big Sky Dreams" by Montana Marv. 

Why then have those in Israel begin training Levites to do Temple work.  You should read what the Levites did in the Temple.  Is Israel doing something that you do not know about.  They have been in the process of making a pure line of Red Heifers without blemish.  The Red Heifer without blemish is sacrifice outside the Tent of Meetings later to be Jerusalem.  It's blood is sprinkled in front of the Tent of Meetings. And its ashes are to be kept for use in water of cleaning, it is for purification from sin. Num 19: 1-10.  This is a requirement of the law that the Lord has commanded.  It is a type of sacrifice which was to be Christ.  And of course, Israel never accepted Christs sacrifice.

Why all this; Levites, Sacrifice, Red Heifer, if the Temple will not again be used to sacrifice animals.  I just call it as I see it.  We all see a lot better in the Big Sky State.  Cleaner air makes one think more clearly.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

14 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Then, you're REFUSING to see that the Week was divided by YESHUA` ("JESUS") HIMSELF! Just because it is listed as "one week," doesn't mean that it must remain a contiguous unit of seven years! That's JUST LIKE your need to see the whole 70 Weeks as though they were not a whole contiguous unit of 70 Weeks! Wouldn't such a gap mean that you're SKIPPING week 70, week 71, week 72, ... until you get to some future ... oh, I don't know ... maybe week 355? (69+2000/7 rounded up.)

What if I can show you that your 69 Weeks WON'T FIT into human history without some nutball calculations like a 360-day year being thrown into the mix and using Artaxerxes' edict as the starting point? That's one importance of the thread I plan to start.

Roy

Jesus Himself cannot divide and split the Week as you say.  For He (being the Word) has already established a full, whole One Seven as prophetic.  You cannot butcher the One Seven.  It is either totally finished, or it is totally in our future.  No slicing and dicing here.  Not Biblical.  I see a midpoint in the One Seven.  Christ died after 69 Weeks as Scripture says.  Daniel mentions a 7 Seven, a 62 Seven, Christs death, then another One Seven.  That's the order.

You Can't show me that the 69 Weeks won't fit into history,  Because it has.  Numbers don't lie.

Will you also factor in the the Birth of Jesus was near 7 or 8 B.C..  Because Herod the Great died in 4 B.C.  This I already know you know.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Roy

Jesus Himself cannot divide and split the Week as you say.  For He (being the Word) has already established a full, whole One Seven as prophetic.  You cannot butcher the One Seven.  It is either totally finished, or it is totally in our future.  No slicing and dicing here.  Not Biblical.  I see a midpoint in the One Seven.  Christ died after 69 Weeks as Scripture says.  Daniel mentions a 7 Seven, a 62 Seven, Christs death, then another One Seven.  That's the order.

You Can't show me that the 69 Weeks won't fit into history,  Because it has.  Numbers don't lie.

Will you also factor in the the Birth of Jesus was near 7 or 8 B.C..  Because Herod the Great died in 4 B.C.  This I already know you know.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Where do you get that?! How can you say with any certainty that Yeshua` "has already established a full, whole One Seven as prophetic (i.e., future)?" You're using a form of circular reasoning: "Matthew 24 is about the WHOLE 7-year week because He said it is so in Matthew 24!" That's circular reasoning, my brother.

Numbers don't lie, but PEOPLE lie just fine WITH NUMBERS!

If one uses a year that is based on 12 30-day months, then he or she has a 360-day year. That 360-day year doesn't fit the facts of spring and autumnal equinoxes. One only has 360/365.2422ths of a year! That means that every "year," 5.2422/365.2422 of a year is lost. This adds up!

To translate this into percentages, 5.2422/365.2422 = x/100%. The variable "x" becomes 1.4353% lost! That's a LOT! That means every 68.673 years, I've lost a WHOLE YEAR! Banks can get away with a 360-day year for compounding simple interest on a monthly basis because they add the 5.2422 days in as holidays, but this "prophetic year" stuff is sheer NONSENSE!

So, if one starts with the year 445 B.C. (the decree of Artaxerxes), 483 years would put it in 483-445+1 = 39 A.D. (too late). To compensate for this, they use this "360-day prophetic year," which would put it in (485 x 360 / 365.2422) - 445 + 1 = 32.068 A.D. Ahhh... just right. This places the end of the 483 years (69 weeks) at the END of Yeshua`s ministry at His DEATH (or after), instead of ... elsewhere ... and ... VOILA! The WHOLE of the 70th Week must still be in the future!

Back when I was naive, that is, before I did the math and just accepted what my elders taught me, this inconsistency still gnawed at the back of my mind. Now that I've done the numbers and reasoned it out, I can't HELP but notice the dishonesty.

They have "fudged" on the numbers.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Retrobyter