Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Gonna be a lot of people wondering why they aint gone nowhere.

I can handle being left behind, for as Christ says ,He is with me always ,how you gonna feel when you still here?Not gonna matter for at this time you will be deceived...

Dream on, my friend! I am going out in the first load.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Psalms 91:7 "A thousand shall fall at thy side, And ten thousand at thy right hand, But it shall not come nigh thee."

Do you all(rapturist)not understand this verse?

There are two verses that override this verse: they both say you will be overcome.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion , that they should a lie;"

Those not in Christ are already delusional

Christians will turn into whores ,that's the bottom line

Did you not read that "if possible" clause? Did you not read where "all but those whose names were written in the book" clause?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Why do we need to put on the gospel armour if we not gonna be here?

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

Do you understand this?

Yes we do this now ,but do you understand that he satan the devil will be here on earth,live and in person,standing where he ought not?

Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

You see that verse by peace ,yet you all worried bout getting your heads chopped off.

Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to with stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

What evil day?The day satan comes pretending to be Christ!!!!

How ya'll not gonna be here ,when He just told you to be prepared?

Do you EVER make good sense? Daniel 8 is about Antiochus. It is history. 

The "evil day" is today.  And today we got hundreds of different theories about every verse.

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, Last Daze said:

That was a general statement that was nothing more than a cautionary observation.  Take it or leave it.

Brother, I'm not going to argue over things that will work themselves out.  We're responsible for being ready, for worshiping God in spirit and truth, not arguing incessantly until the cows come home.  Feel free to believe whatever eschatology you want.  I honestly don't care and ultimately, it really doesn't matter.  What matters is that we stay awake and remain faithful regardless of what comes our way. 

When we get to heaven, and if you were actually correct, you can get up on the kitchen table and do your victory dance.  Until then, I'm content to let things unfold according to the will of God because arguing about it doesn't change a thing.

 

Yesterday I took maybe two hours, just reading your posts. Most of them were right on. When you are not writing about Chronology, you do a very good job! 

I do want to ask a very simple question: when you believe you will see something else come before Christ comes for you and the church, can you truly be "awake" and expecting His coming?  Or will you be expecting to see someone else?

 

[Last Daze]

33 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I do want to ask a very simple question: when you believe you will see something else come before Christ comes for you and the church, can you truly be "awake" and expecting His coming?  Or will you be expecting to see someone else?

When a woman is ready to give birth, is she looking for the birth pangs or the baby?  The baby, of course.  But she knows that in order to get there, the birth pangs come first.  I eagerly await Christ's return but realize that there will be birth pangs first.

I understand being "awake" to mean not being seduced by the things of this world or distracted by the cares of life.  We are to keep our affections on things above, not the things of this world that will pass away.  We are to act on the teachings of Jesus and in so doing, we will become wise and ready for His return.  A person who's awake will worship God in spirit and truth by doing the will of God.  Being ready and alert for His return has everything to do with lifestyle worship, and little to do with eschatology.

[iamlamad]

3 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

When a woman is ready to give birth, is she looking for the birth pangs or the baby?  The baby, of course.  But she knows that in order to get there, the birth pangs come first.  I eagerly await Christ's return but realize that there will be birth pangs first.

I understand being "awake" to mean not being seduced by the things of this world or distracted by the cares of life.  We are to keep our affections on things above, not the things of this world that will pass away.  We are to act on the teachings of Jesus and in so doing, we will become wise and ready for His return.  A person who's awake will worship God in spirit and truth by doing the will of God.  Being ready and alert for His return has everything to do with lifestyle worship, and little to do with eschatology.

My point was this verse:

²⁸ so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

²⁸ So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

If you can honestly say you are eagerly waiting for Him, looking for Him, with your current eschatological belief system, then I have no problem with what you believe. I only think it is a dangerous belief because it is not scriptural. I just don't want you to be left behind when He does come. I believe He is coming ONLY for those that are expecting His coming. The rest will be left behind. I think that is what this verse is saying.  Then there is the many times when He said, "watch!"

[Last Daze]

30 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

My point was this verse:

²⁸ so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

²⁸ So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

If you can honestly say you are eagerly waiting for Him, looking for Him, with your current eschatological belief system, then I have no problem with what you believe. I only think it is a dangerous belief because it is not scriptural. I just don't want you to be left behind when He does come. I believe He is coming ONLY for those that are expecting His coming. The rest will be left behind. I think that is what this verse is saying.  Then there is the many times when He said, "watch!"

Being ready and alert for His return has everything to do with lifestyle worship, and little to do with eschatology.   Dwell on that truth for a while.  Priorities.

• “Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap." Luke 21:34
•  “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock."  Matthew 7:24

Those who are wise are those who hear and act on the teachings of Jesus.  The wise will be ready.  Matthew 25

35 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I only think it is a dangerous belief because it is not scriptural.

That's your perception, not a proven fact.  Whether it is or not is yet to be seen.

[iamlamad]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:44 AM, Da Puppers said:

The answer that things will continue for time, timesand a half,  for the express purpose of breaking the hard hearted will of the people.   That is a point not included in the opening 4 verses of Daniel 12.  Beyond the resurrecting of the righteous [on day 1335] no events are revealed to, [or at least by] Daniel,  concerning the events that follow.   I dare you to present any events that are to follow after the 7th trumpet resurrection,  found anywhere in the book of Daniel.   John reveals to us those times,  but Daniel does not.   

Continuing on with my thought: one response to the [time, times, and half] answer,  Daniel says "i don't understand [your answer], when shall these things [found in verses 1-4] end".  The answer?   Sacrifices cease after Day 1290.  The blessing of the resurrection comes at day 1335.

*[[Dan 12:13]] KJV* But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of THE DAYS.

What days?  Those that he was just told about... The last of which is day 1335.

Blessings

The PuP 

Sorry, but I just don't believe much of what you write. Daniel gives us one line hints of the 70th week - while Revelation covers it in depth using chapters 8 through 16 in REvelation. It just stands to reason then that John would cover things Daniel did not. Daniel gives the headlines - John gives the details. 

So go to the details, John chapter 11, and show us ANY resurrection at the 7th trumpet. (I dare you!)

When we look at resurrection passages, such as 1 thes. 4, we don't see any "7th trumpet" either.

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

Hopefully you understand that Jesus will gather in the fullness of the Gentiles,  just prior to,  and at the time of the blindness being removed from Israel.   This meaning that the rapture precedes the salvation of Israel.   As I have already pointed out,  the casting out of Satan initiates the coming of the kingdom [at his appearing]  and the gathering of the elect into the kingdom.   As I have also pointed out,  in Matt 13,  the great fires of tribulation will remove the things that offend FROM the kingdom,  BEFORE the righteous shine like the sun,  IN THE KINGDOM. 

*[[Mat 13:41]] KJV* The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;  And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

So,  the resurrection of the righteous in Daniel 12 produces this: 

*[[Dan 12:3]] KJV* And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Which brings us to 1 Cor 15 where it tells us that the inheritance of the kingdom of God is belongs to the righteous and not those of mortal flesh and blood.   Just as a passing thought, the earthquake,  coming up out of the graves,  and being given the spirit of God for the sake of the kingdom,  found in Ezekiel 37, is the same as the rewarding of the saints and prophets,  and the judgment of the dead found in the 7th trumpet: 

*[[Rev 11:18]] KJV* And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 

But lets get back to inheriting the kingdom of God.   

*[[1Co 15:50]] KJV* Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So now let me examine your claim, and others,  that the mystery revealed to Paul,  but not necessarily to the other apostles,  was the rapture of the church. 

We basically have choices to what the mystery is, and its connection to the last trump. 

1.We shall not all sleep,  or

2.We shall all be changed. 

I think that we can easily rule out number 1 by the words of Jesus when he said (to the apostles) that "he that shall endure unto the end,  shall be saved".  There should be no question that he is talking about people living when the end comes.   So then we can say 

*[[1Co 15:51]] KJV* Behold, I shew you a mystery; ........., ...we shall all be changed,

So let's now turn our focus to being changed.   Did the apostles (less Paul) know anything about being changed?  They don't call it the "mount of transfiguration" for nothing.   So what is this really about?  Three gospel writers concur that it is about metamorphosis and the coming of the kingdom.   Peter, James and John were all eye witnesses to the event,  to which Peter says: 

*[[2Pe 1:16]] KJV* For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

So,  if the apostles already knew about being changed,  prior to Paul's writing of Corinthians,  what gives?   If it is not about sleeping or being changed what else could it be?  Remember the heart of the matter is about inheriting the kingdom of God.   Who is to inherit the kingdom?  Is it as simple as Jews and Gentiles? The answer to the mystery lies in the word all.

*[[1Co 15:51]] KJV* Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall ALL be changed,

The original apostles concentrated their preaching efforts to the Jews (first), while the apostle Paul dedicated most of his efforts to the Gentiles.   And Paul recognized long before the apostles did that the salvation of the Jews would not take place UNTIL after the rapture,  the fullness of the Gentiles was brought in.  So who goes to be with Christ in the rapture?  Those who are "in Christ".  This would result naturally in the exclusion of the Jews at the rapture.   Paul was able to look far into the future and see that.   He was not only able to see the separation of Jewish and Gentile harvests,  he was able to see that (the mystery) he was able to see that the Jews would also [ALL] undergo this physical metamorphosis in order to inherit the kingdom.   And so we see this: 

*[[Isa 27:13]] KJV* And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

Do you see the connections?  A great trumpet announcing the gathering of the outcasts TO THE KINGDOM,  at Jerusalem.   Utter and complete righteousness will only come with metamorphosis of the corruptible mortal into an incorruptible immortal.   How that he knew that It was to occur at the last trumpet is the essence of the mystery that was revealed to him.   Look at it again: 

*[[1Co 15:51]] KJV* Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT  THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.  

He knew this before John wrote the REVELATION.   Even Isaiah [added: nor the words of Jesus in the Olivet Discourse] does not reveal it to be the last trump, nor any other prophet. 

Blessings

The PuP 

 As I have already pointed out,  the casting out of Satan initiates the coming of the kingdom [at his appearing]  and the gathering of the elect into the kingdom.   This is myth: just human reasoning and imagination. The devil is cast down at the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoing. Jesus does not return until some time AFTER the 7th vial that ends the week.  The "gathering of the elect" (NOT the rapture) will take place when Jesus returns in power, as shown in chapter 19. 

Where in Revelation would you place the parable of the tares?

Where in Revelation would you place the resurrection of the Old Testament saints?

Rev 11:18: Do you think all these things are done and accomplished right then, at the sounding of the 7th trumpet? Remember, it will sound at the midpoint. 

1.We shall not all sleep,  or  2.We shall all be changed. Is this what Paul wrote? NO! Many will not die but be changed while alive. This is not an either / or situation: for those that are IN CHRIST and still alive, they will be changed. Don't make this complicated!

Sorry, my friend, but billions have died IN CHRIST. They are the "Dead in Christ" that rise first. But OF COURSE there will be those in Christ and ALIVE when He comes. 

Good point on the transfiguration. Yes, those that saw it would then know that JESUS, Moses and ELijah were transfigured. Did they at that time imagine one day it would be THEM? I doubt it. No other writer wrote of it: only Paul. 

So,  if the apostles already knew about being changed  You are taking HUGE conclusion jumps!  For all they knew, Jesus would return and defeat the Romans and the Millennial kingdom would begin: and THEY would be judges in that kingdom.  Remember, they ASKED Him about it. 

he was able to see that the Jews would also [ALL] undergo this physical metamorphosis in order to inherit the kingdom.   This is human reasoning again with no scripture to prove it.  They are still in human flesh and blood bodies when they SEE the nail holes in His hands and they mourn. They still have normal bodies when the millennial reign begins. They will be able to have KIDS in the Millennial reign.  In other words, they don't get resurrection bodies. That theory is myth. 

Isa 27:13  Remember after the days of GT that angels will be sent out to gather the elect? God is going to gather all of dispersed Israel back to Israel when He returns to earth.  They will come from heaven and earth.  Will this include those that joined the Body of Christ?  I think not. They will be returning to earth WITH Jesus.  This gathering will fulfill this verse in Isaiah. 

Please tell me you don't believe Paul's "last trump" is the 7th trump of Revelation! If so, another HUGE myth.