Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[Last Daze]

15 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

Stick to the word of God and do what Jesus said, "...pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things..."

Amen.  Here is our example of fleeing / escaping:

• It came about after these events that his master’s wife looked with desire at Joseph, and she said, “Lie with me.”  But he refused and said to his master’s wife, “Behold, with me here, my master does not concern himself with anything in the house, and he has put all that he owns in my charge.  There is no one greater in this house than I, and he has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do this great evil and sin against God?”  As she spoke to Joseph day after day, he did not listen to her to lie beside her or be with her.  Now it happened one day that he went into the house to do his work, and none of the men of the household was there inside.  She caught him by his garment, saying, “Lie with me!” And he left his garment in her hand and fled, and went outside.  Genesis 39:7-12

Babylon the harlot desires that we lie with her.  Do not become entangled in her sins.

• I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues.  Revelation 18:4

Pray that you might have the strength to flee the seduction of the harlot as Joseph did.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

For some reason you are just not getting what I am trying to show you.   How you are arriving at a single coming conclusion,  I just don't know.   I thought that i plainly said concerning the portrayal of the rapture, ala the kingdom,  found in conjunction with Satan being cast out some "1260+ days" before the 2nd advent, that this clearly portrays two comings.  

"I disagree with almost every point". 

I have shown you that the epiphaneia is the rapture,  and is the coming of the kingdom,  which is his coming with the angels and with the glory of the Father.   Other scriptures then connect those thoughts with his coming with great power and in the clouds.   I can't make you believe what i have presented,  you must do that for yourself.   Hopefully you will at least acknowledge the inconsistencies of what you do believe.    

The PuP 

Either I am slow, or your are doing a very poor job if explaining or your theories are so far from the norm I am not seeing it.  Please explain HOW the rapture can be the epiphany when He will be hidden in a cloud.  Then explain how the rapture can be the coming kingdom - on earth - when He takes the church to heaven.  There is no scripture about angels at Paul's rapture - only ONE angel. There may well be, but show a verse. 

And if you do believe in two comings, show us the chronology and how they fit in Revelation's chronology. 

Here is how I see it. Please point out  inconsistencies if you can find any.

1 thes 4:

1: Jesus comes

2: the dead in Christ rise  - causing a worldwide earthquake: Paul's sudden destruction

3. the earth begins to shake

4. Two groups of people get two different results: those in Christ get raptured and escape God's wrath - those in darkness GET His wrath.

5. Those in Christ are gathering and on their way to meet Christ in the clouds.

6. Paul's "sudden destruction" earthquake is worldwide - because the dead in Christ are worldwide. 

7. THE DAY starts with this earth quake. God's WRATH begins with this earthquake  / sudden destruction

In Revelation this will take place a moment before the 6th seal: rapture first, then sudden destruction earthquake of the 6th seal.  But the "tribulation" or 70th week does not start until the 7th seal - I am guessing ten days later (the ten days of awe). 

8. Next will come the first 6 trumpet judgments

9. The man of sin enters Jerusalem with his Gentile armies: the city will be trampled for 42 months.  The Two witnesses show up and begin. 

10. Then the 7th trumpet will mark the exact midpoint. The Kingdoms of the word are given to Jesus Christ.

11. A second or two later, 12:6 takes place and those in Judea begin to flee.

12: As those in Judea begin to flee, Michael is going after Satan to cats him down.

13. John sees the beast arising. 

14. God sends three angels to warn people to worship God, Babylon is fallen is fallen, and not to take the mark.

15. The false prophet shows up and the image is erected. The mark is created and now enforcement begins: any who refuse to bow will lose their head.

16. the beheaded begin to show up in heaven. 

17. The beast and False prophet go nuts -  on a murder rampage!  It seems - their may be no elect that will escape.

18. God pours out the vials of His wrath - probably the first 6 in one hour of time. this stops the great tribulation: TIME will go on but no tribulation associated with it. The armies of the beast are stopped.

19. The two witnesses are killed.

20 the 7th vial is poured out. The Old TEstament saints rise, along with the two witnesses. The days of GT are over. The entire 7oth week is over.  Jesus remains in heaven.

20: the 42 months of trampling are over: the armies of the beast move out into the valley.

20: the 1260 days of testifying ended 3 1/2 days previous. They were killed.

21: The marriage and supper are taking place in heaven. 

22: Jesus returns to earth WITH His bride.  Armageddon takes place. 

23: the Beast and false prophet are caught. 

24: the 1290 days and the 1335 days comes into play about here.

THIS is John's chronology. Any thing other than this is myth.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

I have not "traditionalized" away the notion of there being more than one rapture.   I have been trying to use scriptures to give the correct understanding of the one widely spoken of.   It is futile to speak of another when views concerning the first one are greatly lacking.   If 

"The rapture is only for the faithful," by this you mean those found worthy as a result of a great trial of faith,  I agree with you. 

*[[2Th 1:4]] KJV* So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

I would be interested in how you scripturally defend another rapture(s).  Most multi - rapturists that i have encountered,  believe one to be pretrib.  Even tho i am a multirapturist, I totally reject the notion of a pretrib event. 

Blessings

The PuP 

 

That is because you don't understand 1 thes. 4 & 5. Neither do you understand the great crowd too large to number, of what the 5th seal is about.

I would also say you don't believe John where he places the marriage and supper.

[n2thelight]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

: The marriage and supper are taking place in heaven. 

So who get's married in Heaven?

When does God re-marry Israel,and will He have two brides?

[n2thelight]

If all Christians are gone,who does satan deceive?

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

So who get's married in Heaven?

When does God re-marry Israel,and will He have two brides?

John really does not tell us. The church presumes that Jesus is the groom and the church is the Bride.
The Old Testament saints will be guests. 

Perhaps you can enlighten us?

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, n2thelight said:

If all Christians are gone,who does satan deceive?

He deceives the entire world. That is what is written. HOW? They will all believe in the false miracles and think he is God. 

[n2thelight]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

He deceives the entire world. That is what is written. HOW? They will all believe in the false miracles and think he is God. 

You're exactly right,but the problem is you rapturist think you all gonna be gone when this takes place.

The world is already deceived, Christ expects a virgin bride when He returns.

Only a Christian can go from a virgin to a whore,as the rest of the world already are,that's why He warns them to come out of her.

Unless you die first there's no escaping the coming tribulation, and if you don't have the seal,knowledge of his Word,you will take the mark.

Who do you think He's going to send the strong delusion on,for as I said above ,the world is already deceived. 

[n2thelight]

16 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

John really does not tell us. The church presumes that Jesus is the groom and the church is the Bride.
The Old Testament saints will be guests. 

Perhaps you can enlighten us?

Did not God say He will remarry Israel?

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

 The 2 comings (notice i didn't say revelations,  epiphanies,  or parousia)  are the rapture and the 2nd advent.   Nothing difficult to understand about that.   I don't know why you question my belief in 2 comings.   Maybe i should say it this way.   The 2nd advent is not THE Revelation of Jesus.   To reveal something means to uncover something that is hidden.   The 2nd advent is not the revelation, even tho it will affect and be witnessed by everyone on planet earth.   Something revealed is no longer hidden.   Every eye will see the rapture event, [not an eye to eye encounter].  As i have already stated,  the clouds will prevent that aspect of his coming from destroying all mankind.

Tho we have some shared views, but the majority of what you presented is not.   It would take a very long exposition to point out the inconsistencies.   I am not going to put forth any kind of effort to do that,  especially since I know you would not agree anyway.   But i will put forth some of the major differences.

The command to flee Judea [TO THE MOUNTAINS! ] is in association with the coming great tribulation, GOD'S judgment upon the Jews[seals & trumpets].

1.  "The Day of the Lord", would be more appropriate to say "day of Lord", signifying God assuming lordship over planet earth.   [Satan is currently 'the God of this earth'].  It (the 1000 years) will begin with Satan being cast out of heaven,  and end when he is cast into the bottomless pit.   Peter says that the DofL [DOTL] will begin with the elements melting with fervent heat,  and not with the rapture.   This is the reason that Peter says,

*[[2Pe 3:11]] KJV* Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

This is the day and hour that no man knows,  because no one,  not even the angels,  have seen or experienced anything that compares,  in which Jesus is referring to: 

*[[Mat 24:35]] KJV* Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

This is the unfathomable day of the 6th seal.   To answer one of your questions,  the rapture takes place after the 7th seal,  not the sixth.   One of the cornerstones of misunderstood prophecy concerns the 1290 & 1335 days of Daniel 12.  Day 1 of that prophecy is the day that the sacrifices will begin (next year)  and is also day 1 of the 70th week.   

Day 1290 = 6th seal. 

Day 1335 = 7th trumpet. 

This throws our comparative timelines into utter chaos and therefore I  will not be very much more long. 

At the 7th trumpet, 

1. the saints and prophets will be resurrected and rewarded with the land of promise.  This is not a rapture to heaven,  but the resurrection of righteous [after the rapture of the church].

2.  Jerusalem,  from that point will never more be dwelt in by the unholy and profane.   [I have started before that the purpose of the trumpets is to remove v from the kingdom all those things that offend] REMEMBER THE ANGELS THAT COME WITH JESUS? 

*[[Mat 13:41]] KJV* The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;....*[[Mat 13:43]] KJV* Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

3. The great tribulation,  being God's wrath upon the Jews,  will end.   But don't mistake this for the end of God's wrath.   The implementation of the mark BY the false prophet [at the 42 months to go mark]  will manifest the wrath of God upon the rest of that Christ rejecting world.   This is where the 3 angels of Rev 14 make their voices heard. 

Shortly afterward,  with the sounding of the jubilee trumpet,  The gathering of the elect of Israel officially begins. 

*[[Mat 24:31]] KJV* And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The 2 witnesses and those who were beheaded,  will be resurrected and raptured to heaven just prior to the pouring out of the vials. 

Concerning your question about the "rapture and the coming kingdom".  The rapture is indeed the ones who are "in Christ" being taken to heaven.   But the gathering (from the 4 winds/ corners) of the elect of Israel will start at that time,  and will take the balance of time (about 3 years from the jubilee trumpet [on Yom Kippur]  to Armageddon at Tabernacles) to complete. 

*[[2Th 2:1]] KJV* Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

The parousia/ coming of Christ for the church and the gathering of the elect of Israel is what Paul is referring to.  The purpose for revealing the man of sin is God's intended deceit of all those who rejected the gospel.   The gathering of the church,  at the time when the Jews shall be grafted back into THE BODY OF CHRIST,   cannot take place until the rapture takes place and the man of sin is revealed.

Hopefully,  this gives you a better picture of my timeline of things,  even if you disagree with it. 

Blessings

The PuP 

Finally you got something right! I don't agree. Why don't I agree? It is imagination and not scripture correctly understood. 

The book with the seals makes up most of the book of Revelation. But the seals must be opened before the book can be opened.  Finally, after the 7th seal is opened, then the book can be opened and read. From the 7th seal onward is what is written inside the book. Therefore NO trumpet can be sounded until all seals are opened.  This is why John's book so chronological. The seals come BEFORE the 70th week. The 70th week is what is inside the book. 

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God Given chronology is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong. 

Your theory will be proven wrong. 

The last half of the week is shown in a very limited way, in Daniel 12. Daniel is told the last half of the week will be 3 1/2 years. He does not understand and asks again and gets two different answers: 1290 days and 1335 days.  These counts EXTEND the 3 1/2 years (shown by John to be 1260 days or 42 months) first by 30 more days (1290_ and then 45 more days after that (1335). 

What could these days represent? Well, the marriage and supper will come after the week, so one of those days could be that.

Satan will be bound for a thousand years, so that could be another event. John does not tell us.