Jump to content
Dennis1209

Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Was Christ written of in the Old?

Yes, but there is no mention of the Church.   

The OT prophets speak of the first and second coming, the restoration of Israel/Judah, the Tribulation, the Millennium and the New Heavens and New Earth, but they were not given any knowledge about the Church.   The church did not exist until Acts 2.

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Where is the rapture in the Old Testament?

Enoch & Elijah are clear examples amongst other typology...

Perhaps some of the strongest arguments in favor of a Pre-Tribulation or Pre-Seventieth Week of Daniel Rapture are found in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament we see "a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things" (Hebrews 10:1).

Prophetic Types in the Old Testament

The Holy Spirit explains that these Old Testament types are preserved for our learning:

"For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope" (Romans 15:4).
"Now all these things happened to them (Old Testament characters) as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (1 Corinthians 10:11).

Bible students are well aware that there are numerous Old Testament types that foreshadow a New Testament fulfillment. A classic example is when Abraham took his son, his only son Isaac, whom he greatly loved, to the land of Moriah to offer him there as a sacrifice — concluding that God was able to raise him from the dead (Genesis 22; Hebrews 11:17-19). Abraham is a beautiful type of our heavenly Father, and Isaac, his beloved son, is a striking picture of Jesus, who willingly laid down His life on Mount Moriah 2,000 years later.

Though the Rapture was hidden in part from Old Testament believers, the types found throughout foreshadow a future Rapture when God will remove His people prior to pouring out His wrath on a Christ-rejecting world. Let's now review some of these beautiful types that foreshadow the Rapture.


The Noahic Flood

In Noah's day there were those who passed through the flood (Noah and his family in the ark); there were those who perished in the flood (the unbelieving world); and there was Enoch who was "translated" or "caught up" before the judgment of God was poured out. Enoch walked with God (Genesis 5:24) and pleased Him (Hebrews 11:5), just as Christians who abide in Christ please God (1 John 3:22). Interestingly, from the time God told Noah to enter the ark, until the time when the waters of the flood were on the earth, God granted seven more days for the world to repent (Genesis 7:1-10). Perhaps this is a foreshadow of the final seven-year period culminating in the final judgment (Revelation 19:11-21)?


The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah

In Lot's day, he and his family were "removed" before God rained down His judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19). God did not just "preserve" them through His wrath, He removed them prior to judgment. Jesus said that just before His return it would be like the days of Noah (Luke 17:26) and like the days of Lot (Luke 17:28).

Judgment in Sodom could not occur until Lot was removed (Genesis 19:22)! Remarkably, "while [Lot] lingered, the [angels] took hold of his hand, his wife's hand, and the hands of his two daughters, the Lord being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city... Hurry, escape there. For I cannot do anything until you arrive there" (v. 16, 22). In other words, they were forcibly removed prior to judgment and judgment could not commence until they safely arrived in the new city!


The Story of Joseph

Joseph (a type of Christ in many ways) takes a Gentile bride before the 7 year famine begins (Genesis 41:45). Notice in the account of Joseph that after he received his Gentile bride, his brethren (the Israelites) and the entire world suffered a seven year famine (Genesis 41:54-57). During this time of famine many came to Joseph for food. Similarly, after Jesus receives His Bride, his brethren the Jews (and many in the world), will turn to the Lord Jesus for relief (Revelation 7).

How fitting that the Great Tribulation is called "the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it" (Jeremiah 30:7). It is also referred to as "the time of the Gentiles" (Ezekiel 30:3), and many Gentiles will also be saved out of it (Revelation 7). The famine is a type of the Tribulation (Amos 8:11), and Egypt is a picture of the world. This account strongly suggests that Jesus will receive His bride before the 70th Week of Daniel — before the famine that will come upon the entire world.


Rahab and the Jewish Spies

In Joshua chapter 2, Rahab trusts the Lord and befriends the Jewish spies. By faith Rahab puts a scarlet thread in her window (a symbol of Christ's blood) and she and her family are "brought out" of Jericho before the city is burned with fire (Joshua 6). Rahab is a prostitute (Hebrews 11:31) and a Gentile woman (Joshua 2), yet she is found in the Messianic line (Matthew 1:5). Rahab is therefore a beautiful picture of the Church as the bride of Christ. Though formerly a prostitute, Rahab, by faith, was made clean and delivered from God's wrath. Amazingly, in this account, we again see seven days of warning preceding judgment (God's gracious delay to encourage repentance). The armies of God marched around the city six days, and on the seventh day they marched around the city seven times, and then the city was finally destroyed (Joshua 6).


Abigail and David

In 1 Samuel 25:39-42 Abigail is informed that King David (foreshadowing King Jesus) wants to take her as his bride. She immediately responds and "rose in haste" with five of her damsels to "depart" and go to David for the marriage. Compare this with Matthew 25:1-13 where five wise virgins who truly had oil went forth to meet the Bridegroom (Jesus) away from their dwelling place (earth). Interestingly, the name Abigail means "the Father's joy."


Solomon's Song

The Song of Solomon is an amazing picture of Christ and His Church (Ephesians 5:29-32). In the Song of Solomon 2:8-13, the Bride (the Church) hears the voice of her Beloved (Jesus) coming for her. Then, in verses 10 and 13, the Bridegroom speaks and calls His bride to "Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away." This is a beautiful foreshadow of our marriage and honeymoon in heaven!


Isaiah's Hint

Isaiah 26:20-21 also gives us a possible picture of the Rapture preceding the Tribulation:

"Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold, the LORD comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; the earth will also disclose her blood, and will no more cover her slain."

Apparently, believers are tucked away in Heaven before the Tribulation falls on the earth. Could this also apply to the Jews who hide away in Petra during the Tribulation?


The Prophet Daniel

In Daniel chapter 3, King Nebuchadnezzar (a type of the Antichrist, cf. Revelation 13) demands that the entire population bow down to his image. Daniel's three friends (Jews) are preserved through the fiery tribulation, but Daniel is nowhere to be found. Daniel was "ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief administrator over all the wise men of Babylon" (Daniel 2:48), yet he is missing from the account. Why? Daniel was apparently away. Might he be a type of the Church? Three times Daniel is called "greatly beloved" (Daniel 9:23; 10:11; 10:19).


Zephaniah's Clue

In Zephaniah 2:2-3 we read:

"Before the decree is issued, or the day passes like chaff, before the Lord's fierce anger comes upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger comes upon you! Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden in the day of the Lord's anger."

According to this passage, believers will be hidden in the day of the Lord's anger (cf. Isaiah 26:20-21. See also: Zephaniah 1:7.)


Malachi's Hint

Malachi chapter 3 deals with the Day of the Lord. Interestingly, Malachi 3:18 implies two comings of the Messiah: "Then shall ye (believers) return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not." It becomes clear when we read the entire context of Malachi 3 that believers shall return to the earth. In order to return and discern, believers must have first been caught away to Heaven.


Other Examples

Isaac and Rebekah, as well as Ruth and Boaz, also provide beautiful pictures of Christ taking a Gentile bride — one who counts the cost and leaves their own family — but is not required to suffer through great tribulation or famine. Other examples could be expounded on, but these should be sufficient to show that Christians will be removed before God's wrath is poured out and most likely before the 70th Week of Daniel.

http://www.lamblion.us/2012/07/the-rapture-in-old-testament.html

Edited by Kris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Was Christ written of in the Old?

Here are a few examples, but without doubt there may be many more.

Isaiah 7:14

Isaiah 9:6

Micah 5:2

Zechariah 9:9

Psalm 22:16-18

Isaiah 53:3-7

Isaiah 50:6

Zechariah 12:10

Isaiah 53:3-7 is especially unmistakable: “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.”

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 'rapture' is one day closer than yesterday.

  • Praise God! 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, enoob57 said:

it could happe

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding... relax I'm still here  :D 

Were you typing and walking???  WHEW!! Bro... I thought you tripped or something......or perhaps the duck got away and got on the keyboard?? LOL:24:   where has that blue duck been? I haven't seen it lately.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Davida said:

Were you typing and walking???  WHEW!! Bro... I thought you tripped or something......or perhaps the duck got away and got on the keyboard?? LOL:24:   where has that blue duck been? I haven't seen it lately.

It's on lonesome dove :43: 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

It's on lonesome dove :43: 

 I just watched Lonesome dove a few weeks ago for the first time. We have no tv so i'm behind on current shows :)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Davida said:

 I just watched Lonesome dove a few weeks ago for the first time. We have no tv so i'm behind on current shows :)

Oh I referred to the original 4-5 hour movie. The best western ever made in my opinion. They had a character on there called blue duck :) 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Oh I referred to the original 4-5 hour movie. The best western ever made in my opinion. They had a character on there called blue duck duck :) 

You're right!! That is the one I watched. doh.. I forgot that character was a very baad man.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Davida said:

You're right!! That is the one I watched. doh.. I forgot that character was a very baad man.

what are you trying to say about my duckexclamation emote coon lean left 245 with duck on head.jpg
                                                                    :sherlock:   huh? huh? huh?

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Steve Conley
      Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
      Can someone please help me? Can you tell me if all these verses refer to the same event?
      Isa 2:12  For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
      Isa 2:13  And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
      Isa 2:14  And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
      Isa 2:15  And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
      Isa 2:16  And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
      Isa 2:17  And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
      Isa 2:18  And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
      Isa 2:19  And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
      Isa 2:20  In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
      Isa 2:21  To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
      Isa 13:6  Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
      Isa 13:7  Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
      Isa 13:8  And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
      Isa 13:9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
      Isa 13:10  For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
      Isa 13:11  And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
      Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
      Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
      Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
      Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
      Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
      Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
      Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
      Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
      Luk 21:26  Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
      Are each of these passages speaking of the same event? It appears that they are. Please provide proof if they are not all referring to the same event.
      Thanks
    • Guest Omegaman
      By Guest Omegaman
      The debate continues, and I suppose it will until/if the church finds itself recognizing that the antichrist/man of sin/beast/son of perdition/abomination that cuases desolation/etc. has been revealed and recognized.
       
      So, here is what I am asking, this is the question that this thread is about:
       
      Where in the bible is it stated, or which combination of verses do you believe imply (evidentially, not wishfully) that there is either:
       
      a secret coming of Jesus for the church before the great tribulation an invisible coming of Jesus for the church a two part second advent a scriptural distinction of Jesus coming for His church, versus His coming with His church From my perspective, in case it is not obvious, the only thing invisible about Jesus coming, is that it is that the pre-trib rapture is invisible in the sense that it is no where to be found in scripture.
       
      Some of you disagree, what I am asking then, is for the biblical basis, the scriptural evidence, for one or more of the bulleted points (•) above. Some of you are so sure that Jesus will return before the great tribulation, that certainly you must have biblical evident of the truth or likelyhood, of the pre-trib return of Christ.
       
      To those who want to reply in this thread:
      Please stick to the premise of it, scriptural evidence for a coming of Jesus to catch up His church to be with Him prior to the great tribulation.
       
      I know that I am asking a lot of people to stay on topic. I understand that people are passionate about their eschatological beliefs. However, please exercise some self control and not start in with a statement of or defense of your own, other than pre-trib persuasion.
       
      Let's let this thread be limited to actual scriptural evidence of a pre-trib rapture.
       
      Opposing viewpoints are o.k., but limit those to just enough to present an answer to any posts claiming to present scriptural evidence of a pre-trib rapture, without making it about what you believe instead.
       
      To those taking up the challenge presented here, please note that I have gone to great lengths to be specific in limiting the type of posts appropriate to this thread. For example:
       
      Stating that "the rapture is Jesus coming for His church before the trib" is a definition of your belief, and is not scriptural evidence, such a statement is just an opinion, and is evidence that you believe, not for your belief. Stating things like "the church is not mentioned after verse such and such in Revelation", is also not evidence, it is merely an argument from silence. Stating that "the church is not destined to suffer God's wrath" is also not evidence, unless you can prove that the whole to the great tribulation is in fact the wrath of God, and that if the church is present for that, that she cannot and will not be protected from God's wrath during the great tribulation Hopefully, examples like those above, will convey the idea of what I am seeking, and that you can understand the nature of evidence as opposed to statements of faith in your doctrine. The idea here, is to present some quality reasons to believe in the pre-trib rapture. So here you have an opportunity. Please, give it a shot if you think that you have scriptural evidence.
       
      Thanks in advance
    • Guest
      By Guest
      In the topic of eschatology, few things are debated with more passion than the timing of the rapture with respect to the great tribulation. In online forums there are many opinions expressed. Some of them in my opinion are so far out there that few people if any take them very seriously.
        Some people read these topics and will express their opinion that the topics are not important. Somehow though, they seem to think it important to express their opinion that it isn't important. I have not quite figured that one out yet.
        One of the opinions often expressed is the tongue-in-cheek position:" I am pan tribulation". At the risk of possibly offending those people who say they are pan tribulation, I say this: "The pan-trib position is supposed to be cute or humorous, and I suppose it is the first time one hears it. By now though I am sure that I have heard it over 100 times, and to me it has become a worn-out old joke. I have been hearing it since the 1970s, so pardon me if I don't laugh too hard.

      Still there are those who are reading this post who have no doubt not heard of the pan-trib position even now. For their sakes I will explain the pan-trib position. "I do not care if the rapture is before, during, or after the tribulation, as long as it all pans out".
        I have very little respect for the pan-trib position. I suspect that people who hold that position fall into one of several categories: Perhaps they are too lazy to study the Bible. Perhaps they feel they are underqualified to have a real opinion. Perhaps they detest debate. Perhaps they are afraid to express their opinion.  
      Sometimes they will make the point that eschatology is not a salvational issue and therefore is not worth having a strong opinion about. It often seems to escape their notice though, that almost all of the Bible is not about salvational issues, so I would have to guess that most of the Bible is also not important to them.
       
      Considering how much space (in the New Testament especially) is devoted to eschatology by the apostles and even by Jesus Himself I find it extremely difficult and even disrespectful to imply that the things that Jesus said and that the apostles (who were inspired by God to write) expressed, are of little importance.

      Coming up with flippant, worn-out remarks does not in my mind, justify what seems to be an aire of superiority in being wishy-washy about Scripture.
       
      I know I am on my high horse. I know I am often on my high horse. I know that I am on my high horse frequently lately. You can reply to this post and inform me of that if you wish, but don't think you're telling me anything that I do not already know and freely admit.
        As I have already stated there are many opinions and many positions in the field of eschatology. The different positions contradict each other of course and most of them (if not all of them) contradict Scripture at at least one point. No more than one position can be 100% accurate and perhaps none of them are. In spite of the fact that I have used a lot of words so far in this post, I really only want to invite comments on the following proposition:   There are many reasons that people may use to explain why they believe what they believe about eschatology. With respect to the issue of whether or not the rapture is before, during, or after the great tribulation, I believe the following reasons should be discounted.   The character of God argument.   Some people believe that the church will not go through the great tribulation because it is not within the character of God to allow his church to suffer. This reasoning is invalid because God's people have always been allowed to suffer historically. This is true whether we are talking about the Jews or the Christians, prophets or apostles, martyrs since the time of Christ and even today, and of course Jesus himself who said a servant is not above his master.   If God has allowed his people to suffer for thousands of years, how can we think that it is not in God's character to allow such suffering?   Wishful thinking.   It is so easy for us in the West to find the idea of suffering distasteful. Many of us have never missed a meal even one time in our entire life nor slept without a roof over our head unless it was by choice. We live in a time and in cultures where most people have access to transportation which requires no physical work, access to nearly continual entertainment and access to vast amounts of knowledge that we never had to study to obtain.   I read just today that Google claims that the average Android user checks his or her Android 150 times each day. In these days of comfort and convenience, fast food and instant gratification, it is no wonder that some of us cannot conceive of going through a time of suffering and persecution lasting from 3-1/2 to 7 years. However, just because we have had it so easy does not mean there won't be a time when we will have it so hard.   I have gone on long enough. I intended to list a lot of reasons which are not valid reasons for believing some of the things that we do believe. It seems to me that in the area of eschatology the only reason to believe anything is because the Bible tells us so.   I am sure that many of us believe we believe what the Bible says about these things. It is my observation however that many of us if not most of us believe what we believe by taking preconceived ideas to the Scripture and then interpreting the Scripture in a way that agrees with what we already believe about it, rather than taking Scripture at its word and adjusting our thinking to align with what the Bible itself says.   Do we really want to be a people who gather to themselves teachers who will tell us what our itching ears want to hear? Or do we think that the better idea is to be like the Bereans, and search the Scriptures daily to see whether these things be so?
×