We are about to see John 17 fulfilled before our very eyes...

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

There is no doubt about the persecution. But I think much of it will come from inside the church as we know it, not from the outside world. Remember where we are told that darkness will be so great that in the end men will turn family members in to be killed. And get this. As they do this, they will think they are doing God a spiritual service. 

Why will this happen? Because as the church awakens, they will, because of their new natures, testify to the others.... without words.... that their deeds are evil. Up till now, the wheat and tares are mixed in the church today and that certainly is not happening.... yet. But when one lights their lamp and opening testifies that it is no more He that lives and that he is crucified with Christ, am that it is now Christ who lives in him? Well, the tares will not like that one bit. And neither will satan.

Friends, I understand the responses. What I share is new and yes, it is different than what we have accepted as ‘normal’ Christianity. All I ask is this. Get alone with God. Let Him see your own heart and where you stand in relations to sin in your life. Are you content without godliness or is there a gnawing hunger there. He will lead you to truth. And I would be remiss if I did not tell you to open up your Bible and pray with it open. God has promised to cause us to obey. If you have found in your walk that sin still rules the roost, that self is still very much alive, and that you identify with Paul’s hatred of his  failures and his longing to be delivered into the free indeed Jesus promised, then I trust God will lead you all the way home to walk as an overcomer. 

What I share is amazingly wonderful to any who hate their old nature. It is just not that exciting for those content to live in Romans 7 but without Paul’s hunger for Free Indeed. 

Blessings, 

Gideon

Amen.  And thank you for sharing your wonderful testimony......I rejoice with you on your victory.  Yes, just like when Jesus was on earth, we will be persecuted and betrayed by those who claim to know God. 

Bible says the Lord will send the prophet Elijah before the terrible day of the Lord......and in James 5 I believe we see the last days outpouring hidden in plain sight....pretty much that whole chapter seems like an end time prophecy.

Yes, I do pray with my bible open, and read it prayerfully.....and many a time it's like the Lord has a conversation with me through His word. 

[Gideon]

44 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Those who are HIS are letting the light shine .   sadly most are not truly his .     I am not saying that to condemn anyone .

So many are teaching of an end time enlightenment that is on the rise .    The true church is here , has been.   small in number compared to most

but its always been like this .    His being santicified in US before their eyes ......................THIS has always been the gospel .    It is Him at work in those who are HIS

and this has been since the day of Pentecost .    We already have new natures IF HE is in us .   And this nature has always shined forth into the world.

their is no end time enlightenment .     JUST the church as it has always been ,  the true ones IN HIM , have never ceased from this earth at any time in history.

Our awakening .   IT happened the day we were reborn .  we were awakend from sleep, from death ,   if we weren't ,  then we never knew him .

What you should simply be doing is correcting and exorting the Church , reminding the people with exhortations .  NO where did paul teach or james teach

or jude or others teach that a great awaking was coming , AND they all believed the coming of the LORD drew nigh .  What they simply did

was already in them BY CHRIST .  they just preached the gospel and told of times only getting worse and worse nigh the end , and that

we must persevere in Christ .  Solider up and let the LIGHT already in us SHINE .  their is no big end time awakening .   

IF we want folks saved and the church sharpened , then by the LIGHT already in us let it shine NOW for all to see.  

You have taken that word falling AWAY and turned it into something it never meant .  IT said great falling AWAY , not towards Him.

This is where you need to hear .    If you want a on fire holy church ,  then simply exhort .   HE is at work within HIS OWN , always has been.

And while I know its sad that we see the current state of many ,   all we do is BY grace is LET the LIGHT of Christ shine NOW . 

What is on the rise is a great delusion .   not a great enlightment .  and this delusion is tied right into a false unity that WILL gather the religons , but not under CHRIST

but under anti Christ .   I know that is sad , but its true .    This is our mission , GET the gospel out NOW , get correction and edification out NOW

and get the church edified , encouraged , warned ,  to what is really coming and to have no fear of this , but simply let the Light of CHRIST shine to our final breath.

Brother, I respectfully disagree. Are you saying we are letting our lights shine just as those in the early church did? The ones who turned the entire world upside down? The ones where people said “Look how they love one another!” Really? 

Think what you are saying. The same God who changes not struck down Ananias and Saphira just for a small lie about land they sold. It was their land. All they did is look a little better by the lie. And it cost them their lives! Honestly, if that same standard were held up to today’s Christians, how many would show up for service with confidence this coming Sunday. 

Let’s be honest here. Without that, we can go no further. The divorce rate in the world is about 50%. And in the church? 50%. Look, if husbands and wives cannot remain together, what chance do we have in loving our neighbor? The world has infiltrated our thinking. We look at the same tv shows, we buy the same things trying to make our lives meaningful. Our prayer closets are for the most part empty and our commitment consists for most as  a ninety minute service once a week. 

I remember a story about a condemned prisoner in England who was to be executed. As they walked to the gallows led by a tired Priest recitibf last rites, the prisoner stopped the man and asked him if he believed  in heaven and hell. The man of God replied that indeed he did. The condemned man responded “ If I believed what you say you believe, though all of England were covered with shards of broken glass, I would crawl across it on my knees if necessary to save just one from such a fate.”

That statement should suffice to prick the hardest of consciences. And if it is not, there is nothing more I can say to convince you that we are not even close to being ready and that we ought to be praying the following prayer:

”Lord, please, I beg you, do not come today! Members of my own family will be lost forever. My children, my friends, my co-workers! Oh Lord, restore that which the cankerworm has eaten in my walk with you. Give me again my sight and let me stand in the gap for the lost till all those called come to the saving knowledge of you! Set me free from my sin so that my light will shine so brightly that they will want what I have. Forgive my contentm ent without godliness and let me taste of the glorious liberty of the children of God that you have promised. O, Lord, not today! Not yet!”

The question is... will we pray it? 

 

Blessing, 

Gideon

[Gideon]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

      Have you read where it says satan cannot touch those born of God. You were not born again if you wrre living in open sin. He who is born of God does not practice sin.

Brother, let’s be sure and  quote it right. 

“He that is born of God sinneth not.” 

And one thing is for sure, when I cried out to God that night eleven years ago, I certainly felt like I was not born again. But God had mercy on me anyway, heard my cry of desperation and met me right where I was. And once I truly believed that Satan cannot touch me,  praise God, I found it to be true. 

One thing I will say. I had a fight in me for 38 years. I was the poster boy for Romans 7. I hated my sin, but could not stop. I longed to be kind and loving but found my old nature too untameable. But when God showed me that by a simple act of faith, I could appropriate death to my unloving and unloveable self, and in its place put on a brand new nature, the doom and gloom that held me evaporated like summer snow. And in these last eleven years since that night, I do not cease to thank Him for His grace and for the victory He has let me partake in that I have no right to enjoy. 

Blessings to you, dear brother and even if we fail to agree, let us walk in peace.

Gideon

[warrior12]

2 hours ago, Gideon said:

Brother, I so understand what you are saying. My words are meant to open eyes, not confuse people. I wish I knew how to condense things and if I could, I would. I had no idea it would be this particular topic that would start a firestorm, lol.

To tell people that God is going to awaken us from our hum-drum go-to-meeting Christianity and make us victorious, and rescue us out of Romans 7 lives and cause us to be made overcomers should be shout-it-from-the-housetops news, filling His struggling  children with hope  but as everything else new, there will be a period of confusion. I get it. He has clearly promised us victory over the world the flesh and the devil. So.... are we walking in it? The bigger question. Does it bother us if we are not? 

Amd to those it does, this truth God has  given me to share is the answer we all need to get. We are new creatures. Now. Today. This minute. But, because we have not believed it, we have allowed Satan to imprison us in old natures that will not let God cause us to walk  obediently and fruitfully. 

That is the crux of the message and as we awaken to it, and start again believing His promises to us to keep us from falling, everything will change. And it will be glorious!  

blessings,

Gids

Alright then.  You said your words are meant to open eyes, not confuse people and so I have no quarrel with that, who would.

In the last paragraph of your opening post, I read it with a bit of disturbance though.   If the believer is to glorify God through Jesus Christ, then the name of Christ has to be proclaimed and lifted up with authority as children of God. We cannot speak in vague and cluttered ways as for men to read  those lines as their own interpretation, but must make sure to mention the name of Christ and to emphasize it is this to whom you are speaking of.

When I read the last paragraph, I saw the words about "Light" and not Christ, then it was a bit disturbing and not confusing to me. To be honest, it sounded more like  new age to me. However, you have put in the word "gospel" in front of the word "light", it would have made that paragraph mean a lot more linked to the gospel news. 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by warrior12

[Gideon]

57 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Alright then.  You said your words are meant to open eyes, not confuse people and so I have no quarrel with that, who would.

In the last paragraph of your opening post, I read it with a bit of disturbance though.   If the believer is to glorify God through Jesus Christ, then the name of Christ has to be proclaimed and lifted up with authority as children of God. We cannot speak in vague and cluttered ways as for men to read  those lines as their own interpretation, but must make sure to mention the name of Christ and to emphasize it is this to whom you are speaking of.

When I read the last paragraph, I saw the words about "Light" and not Christ, then it was a bit disturbing and not confusing to me. To be honest, it sounded more like  new age to me. However, you have put in the word "gospel" in front of the word "light", it would have made that paragraph mean a lot more linked to the gospel news. 

 

 

I responded to someone else along these same lines and want to make sure I clear this up. It is to the name of Jesus alone, our king, our sacrificial lamb, that every knee will bow and every tongue confess, Forgive me if I was not clear enough when I talked about us all coming to the light. Jesus IS the light. He alone is worthy and if not for Him, I would be lost forever. Thank you for taking the time to question me gracefully. 

Blessings, 

Gideon

[wingnut-]

34 minutes ago, Gideon said:

”Lord, please, I beg you, do not come today! Members of my own family will be lost forever. My children, my friends, my co-workers! Oh Lord, restore that which the cankerworm has eaten in my walk with you. Give me again my sight and let me stand in the gap for the lost till all those called come to the saving knowledge of you! Set me free from my sin so that my light will shine so brightly that they will want what I have. Forgive my contentm ent without godliness and let me taste of the glorious liberty of the children of God that you have promised. O, Lord, not today! Not yet!”

The question is... will we pray it?

 

It contradicts scripture, so no, I would not recommend it.

 

Romans 8:23  And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

 

Galatians 5:5  For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

 

Hebrews 9:28  so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

I am eagerly awaiting His return, so I am certainly not going to ask Him to stay away, more like come now!  And while the middle parts may seem right, the entire focus is on the things of this world, which you supposedly have given up thinking about in your new nature, what gives?  It is more like trying to pull on people's heart strings to make your message more meaningful.  What your message is sorely lacking, is scripture.

What little scripture you have brought up, is out of context.  Here is an example of what I mean.

 

Ezekiel 36:19 I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries. In accordance with their ways and their deeds I judged them. 20 But when they came to the nations, wherever they came, they profaned my holy name, in that people said of them, ‘These are the people of the Lord, and yet they had to go out of his land.’ 21 But I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations to which they came.

I Will Put My Spirit Within You

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came.

 

This is directed to the nation of Israel, as you can clearly see.  Christians did not possess His land and have to go out of it, the dispersion of the Jews following their exile is the topic at hand, this has nothing to do with the church.  Leading into verse 22, this ties in with Joel 2 and what is prophesied there.  Again, nothing to do with the church, it is in regards to the nation of Israel.

 

On the previous page, you posed this question.

 Was God lying when He said He would actually cause us to obey? 

 

Where is this found in scripture please?  What passage has God saying He will cause us to obey?

 

What I am seeing so far is a confusion between what is in Israel's future, and what is in the churches future.  Frienduff was right on the money when he pointed out there is no enlightenment spoken of in scripture in regards to the church, but a falling away or departing from the faith.   So far the only passages you have mentioned have nothing to do with the church.

Here are some scriptures about what is going on with the church in the latter days.

 

I Timothy 4  Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

 

You see there, not departing from the faith because others have become enlightened as you claim, but because they devote themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons.

 

II Timothy 3   But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

 

Look familiar?  This is the light you are attempting to cast believers in, but that isn't who Paul is talking about here is it?  And what about verse 5, those having the appearance of Godliness, but denying its power?

 

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.

 

God bless

[Gideon]

8 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

It contradicts scripture, so no, I would not recommend it.

 

Romans 8:23  And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

 

Galatians 5:5  For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

 

Hebrews 9:28  so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

I am eagerly awaiting His return, so I am certainly not going to ask Him to stay away, more like come now!  And while the middle parts may seem right, the entire focus is on the things of this world, which you supposedly have given up thinking about in your new nature, what gives?  It is more like trying to pull on people's heart strings to make your message more meaningful.  What your message is sorely lacking, is scripture.

What little scripture you have brought up, is out of context.  Here is an example of what I mean.

 

Ezekiel 36:19 I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries. In accordance with their ways and their deeds I judged them. 20 But when they came to the nations, wherever they came, they profaned my holy name, in that people said of them, ‘These are the people of the Lord, and yet they had to go out of his land.’ 21 But I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations to which they came.

I Will Put My Spirit Within You

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came.

 

This is directed to the nation of Israel, as you can clearly see.  Christians did not possess His land and have to go out of it, the dispersion of the Jews following their exile is the topic at hand, this has nothing to do with the church.  Leading into verse 22, this ties in with Joel 2 and what is prophesied there.  Again, nothing to do with the church, it is in regards to the nation of Israel.

 

On the previous page, you posed this question.

 Was God lying when He said He would actually cause us to obey? 

 

Where is this found in scripture please?  What passage has God saying He will cause us to obey?

 

What I am seeing so far is a confusion between what is in Israel's future, and what is in the churches future.  Frienduff was right on the money when he pointed out there is no enlightenment spoken of in scripture in regards to the church, but a falling away or departing from the faith.   So far the only passages you have mentioned have nothing to do with the church.

Here are some scriptures about what is going on with the church in the latter days.

 

I Timothy 4  Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

 

You see there, not departing from the faith because others have become enlightened as you claim, but because they devote themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons.

 

II Timothy 3   But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

 

Look familiar?  This is the light you are attempting to cast believers in, but that isn't who Paul is talking about here is it?  And what about verse 5, those having the appearance of Godliness, but denying its power?

 

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.

 

God bless

Lest we forget, Paul said it was far better to go and be with the Lord, but more needful for him to stay to help in the Lord’s work. The question is... are we in it for us.... or for Him? 

Blessings, Gideon

Edited April 9, 2018 by Gideon

[Gideon]

As to your question about God telling us He will cause us to obey, it is found in Ezekiel36 where the new covenant is promised. 

“And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
                         Ezekiel 36:27 

blessings, Gideon

[wingnut-]

23 minutes ago, Gideon said:

As to your question about God telling us He will cause us to obey, it is found in Ezekiel36 where the new covenant is promised. 

“And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
                         Ezekiel 36:27 

blessings, Gideon

 

Did you miss who Ezekiel 36 is for?

 

Ezekiel 36:19 I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries. In accordance with their ways and their deeds I judged them. 20 But when they came to the nations, wherever they came, they profaned my holy name, in that people said of them, ‘These are the people of the Lord, and yet they had to go out of his land.’ 21 But I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations to which they came.

I Will Put My Spirit Within You

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came.  23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Lord God, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes.24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. And I will summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine upon you. 30 I will make the fruit of the tree and the increase of the field abundant, that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord God; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.

 

The church did not possess the land, and have not been dispersed from it.  Ezekiel 36 is about the nation of Israel, as displayed from the passage above, which I extended from what I previously posted to include the verse you just referenced.  Please note the bolded and underlined section and explain how this relates to the church in any way, shape, or form.

Specifically, I would love to hear your explanation in regards to verse 26, because based on this, and your misunderstanding of John 17, you don't seem to think the Holy Spirit has come yet?

God bless

[wingnut-]

42 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Lest we forget, Paul said it was far better to go and be with the Lord, but more needful for him to stay to help in the Lord’s work. The question is... are we in it for us.... or for Him? 

Blessings, Gideon

 

Ummmm, that is not what Paul says at all.

 

II Corinthians 5:2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

 

Paul says we, meaning he groans in this tent as well, longing to put on our (again, including himself) heavenly dwelling.  Paul again says we (including himself)  would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.  

Pay close attention to verse 5, we are already prepared because He has given (past tense) the Spirit as our guarantee, which relates to your misunderstanding in regards to Ezekiel 36.

God bless