PAPAL INFALLIBILITY

[JimmyB]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:33 PM, B Judson said:

Luke 15:24

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

 

Jesus specifically said... the prodigal son was dead while he was away having turned his back on the Father.

 

During this time, this guy was not saved and did not have the life of the Father in him.  He was lost!  What part of what Jesus said would you like to deny?

The Father had expectation and the hope that his son would return and in this sense yes he was looking for his son.

There is NO evidence in scripture showing the Father (who was a wealthy man) sent people out to search for his son!  There's NO evidence that the Father himself traveled around looking for his son!

Your eisegisis is failing you badly now... you cannot read in to scripture things the scripture does not say - unless of course you are one of those adherents to the false calvinist / reformed theology teachings

a) The story of the prodigal son is a parable, a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.  It is fictional!

b) The younger son was not literally dead.  If he was, how could he have returned to his father?  Luke 15:23-24, "And get the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate, for this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found!’ And they began to celebrate".  Obviously the father was using "dead" symbolically as the rest of the sentence clearly shows.

c) You wrote "During this time, this guy was not saved and did not have the life of the Father in him.  He was lost!" so 1) you are contradicting yourself by saying that he was dead. 2) Of course he wasn't saved, as he was not a Christian. 3) By your writing "What part of what Jesus said would you like to deny?" it is clear that you have no idea what a parable is! Again, a parable is a short and simple fictional story that teaches a religious or moral lesson. 

Matthew 13:10-13, "Then the disciples came and asked him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He answered, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.  For to those who have, more will be given, and they will have an abundance, but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away.  The reason I speak to them in parables is that ‘seeing they do not perceive, and hearing they do not listen, nor do they understand.’

You did get one thing right: There is NO evidence in scripture showing the Father (who was a wealthy man) sent people out to search for his son!  There's NO evidence that the Father himself traveled around looking for his son!"  There is no evidence that his father flew in the air either. LOL!

Your eisegesis (which you mi9sspelled!) has failed you badly.  You cannot read into scripture things the scripture does not say!

FYI I am not one of those adherents of the Calvinist/reformed theology, which has nothing to do with the discussion.  Are you?

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by JimmyB

[Daniel Marsh]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:19 AM, JimmyB said:

a) The story of the prodigal son is a parable, a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.  It is fictional!

b) The younger son was not literally dead.  If he was, how could he have returned to his father?  Luke 15:23-24, "And get the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate, for this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found!’ And they began to celebrate".  Obviously the father was using "dead" symbolically as the rest of the sentence clearly shows.

c) You wrote "During this time, this guy was not saved and did not have the life of the Father in him.  He was lost!" so 1) you are contradicting yourself by saying that he was dead. 2) Of course he wasn't saved, as he was not a Christian. 3) By your writing "What part of what Jesus said would you like to deny?" it is clear that you have no idea what a parable is! Again, a parable is a short and simple fictional story that teaches a religious or moral lesson. 

Matthew 13:10-13, "Then the disciples came and asked him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He answered, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.  For to those who have, more will be given, and they will have an abundance, but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away.  The reason I speak to them in parables is that ‘seeing they do not perceive, and hearing they do not listen, nor do they understand.’

You did get one thing right: There is NO evidence in scripture showing the Father (who was a wealthy man) sent people out to search for his son!  There's NO evidence that the Father himself traveled around looking for his son!"  There is no evidence that his father flew in the air either. LOL!

Your eisegesis (which you mi9sspelled!) has failed you badly.  You cannot read into scripture things the scripture does not say!

FYI I am not one of those adherents of the Calvinist/reformed theology, which has nothing to do with the discussion.  Are you?

 

Back then when a Jewish person became a Christian, their family considered them to be dead.   Likely his family simply considered dead to them.  

[JimmyB]

13 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Back then when a Jewish person became a Christian, their family considered them to be dead.   Likely his family simply considered dead to them.  

This is not substantiated in Scripture.  Jesus spoke in parables that were and are meant to explain certain principles.

Clearly the father was speaking figuratively was speaking figuratively... “ ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

BTW, Matthew 12:46-50 shows the other side of the story...

"While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

[Daniel Marsh]

On 9/2/2023 at 10:30 AM, JimmyB said:

This is not substantiated in Scripture.  Jesus spoke in parables that were and are meant to explain certain principles.

Clearly the father was speaking figuratively was speaking figuratively... “ ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

BTW, Matthew 12:46-50 shows the other side of the story...

"While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Hebrews 6:4-6
Easy-to-Read Version
4-6 After people have left the way of Christ, can you make them change their lives again? I am talking about people who once learned the truth, received God’s gift, and shared in the Holy Spirit. They were blessed to hear God’s good message and see the great power of his new world. But then they left it all behind, and it is not possible to make them change again. That’s because those who leave Christ are nailing him to the cross again, shaming him before everyone.

Check out commentaries that are good on culture.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Also,  I have experenced what I said, myself.   I also, have seen that happen to many others too.   Not all things are written in the Bible. 

Do you consult the Bible on how to repair your Car, fly a Jet? do surgey? play any modern sports?

[enoob57]

21 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

 Not all things are written in the Bible. 

When God says this:

2 Tim 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
So to what you have written and compared to what God has written as throughly furnished for all good works... seems a disconnect here somewhere between you and the Lord ...

[garee]

On 7/27/2023 at 11:16 AM, all hearts rejoice said:

Does not the entire premise of  Papal  Infallibility  demonstrate a display of  circular  reasoning.

 

who  or  what  decides  exactly  what   teachings,  doctrines  and  comments  are  truly delegated from the chair of St Peter 

what is it that  suddenly enthrones  or  dethrones  the  Vatican  Primates  from  this chair   -   from one second to the next  ?

The chair according to that law of men "law of the fathers". . . I heard it through the fathers grapevine   (a derogatory phrase)  is the imaginations of one unconverted heart.  

God is not a man and neither is there any fleshly infalible interpreter as a daysman that sits between God not seen and mankind seen with approval of both 

Job 9:32-33 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both. (God and man) 

Even Jesus the Son of man when bowed down in worship (Blasphemy)  dared not sit in seat of the Father. When called good teaching master  (Rabbi) Jesus gave glory to the father  and settled the issue. .  one is the good teaching master not a legion of fathers called patron saints from  earth

Mark 10:17-18  King James Version And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

On 9/2/2023 at 10:30 AM, JimmyB said:

This is not substantiated in Scripture.  Jesus spoke in parables that were and are meant to explain certain principles.

Clearly the father was speaking figuratively was speaking figuratively... “ ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

BTW, Matthew 12:46-50 shows the other side of the story...

"While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

JimmyB already posted a text to show what I wrote is true.

 

Luke 15:24

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

 

In short, when he left his family, he was considered to be dead.  When he came back he became alive to them.

In Hebrews 6:4-6  When one became a Christian, they were considered to be dead to their family.   When the person turned his back on Jesus and returned to his family, they considered him to be alive  which is what it makes it impossible for him to come back to Jesus.  Many Jewish people did not consider Jesus to be the Messiah.   To them  Christianity was viewed as a false religion.

[Daniel Marsh]

https://www.gotquestions.org/parable-prodigal-son.html

another case of one being considered dead.

2 Samuel 14:7

Now the whole family is against me. They said to me, ‘Bring us the son who killed his brother and we will kill him, because he killed his brother.’ My son is like the last spark of a fire. If they kill my son, that fire will burn out and be finished. He is the only son left alive to get his father’s property. So my dead husband’s property will go to someone else and his name will be removed from the land.”

 

 

 

[JimmyB]

14 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Hebrews 6:4-6
Easy-to-Read Version
4-6 After people have left the way of Christ, can you make them change their lives again? I am talking about people who once learned the truth, received God’s gift, and shared in the Holy Spirit. They were blessed to hear God’s good message and see the great power of his new world. But then they left it all behind, and it is not possible to make them change again. That’s because those who leave Christ are nailing him to the cross again, shaming him before everyone.

Check out commentaries that are good on culture.

 

Are we discussing the same subject? Because I'm not following you.

Edited September 6, 2023 by JimmyB