The chronological order of end time events

[Daniel 11:36]

Your interpretations are horribly distorted .... of course these tribulation saints repented just as all must repent

[Mike Mclees]

3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Your interpretations are horribly distorted .... of course these tribulation saints repented just as all must repent

I don't think so. All must come to repentance is true when they come to Christ. how does that make you more than them. You see they were willing to be true to Christ even to the end. Isn' t that what Jesus calls for us to do. How blind you are.

[Daniel 11:36]

Not blind son .... I just know what I am talking about

Maybe you will find the answers

[Steve Conley]

9 hours ago, Still Alive said:

There has been tribulation, but this will be "the great" tribulation. And I see it as the wrath of Satan against the body of Christ, and lasting 3.5 years. Then comes the rapture (Rev 7 after the sealing), followed by 3.5 years of the Wrath of God against every single soul left on the planet.

 

IMO

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Still Alive, you have it right that the great tribulation is the wrath of Satan upon the elect (church) and Israel. It is also true that the Beast will continue after he is revealed for 42 months. However, according to Jesus, the great tribulation is cut short. It will not last 3.5 years.

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The unprecedented persecution that Jesus calls great tribulation will begin in the middle of the week (Matt 24:15, 21; Dan 9:27). That is also when the Beast is revealed in the temple (2Thes 2:3-10) The great tribulation (persecution of the church and Israel by the Beast) will continue until the cosmic sign announces Christ's return (Matt 24:29; Joel 2:31; Rev 6:12-17). We are not told how long this is, but it cannot be more than 3 years because of the time needed to accomplish the trumpet and vial judgements and the destruction of the Beast and the armies that follow him at Armageddon, before the Messianic Kingdom is set up.

Both the great tribulation and the wrath of God, in the beginning of the day of the Lord, take up the second half of the week, one after the other.

Hallelujah

[Still Alive]

29 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Still Alive, you have it right that the great tribulation is the wrath of Satan upon the elect (church) and Israel. It is also true that the Beast will continue after he is revealed for 42 months. However, according to Jesus, the great tribulation is cut short. It will not last 3.5 years.

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The unprecedented persecution that Jesus calls great tribulation will begin in the middle of the week (Matt 24:15, 21; Dan 9:27). That is also when the Beast is revealed in the temple (2Thes 2:3-10) The great tribulation (persecution of the church and Israel by the Beast) will continue until the cosmic sign announces Christ's return (Matt 24:29; Joel 2:31; Rev 6:12-17). We are not told how long this is, but it cannot be more than 3 years because of the time needed to accomplish the trumpet and vial judgements and the destruction of the Beast and the armies that follow him at Armageddon, before the Messianic Kingdom is set up.

Both the great tribulation and the wrath of God, in the beginning of the day of the Lord, take up the second half of the week, one after the other.

Hallelujah

I believe it will be cut short - to 3.5 years. But again, It's only an opinion. I was really into this stuff in the 80's and 90's, but got out of it for various reasons regarding what we can possibly "know for sure". 

[Steve Conley]

On 4/18/2018 at 11:23 AM, Quasar93 said:

 

Review my thread, "The Biblical Teaching of the Pre-trib Rapture of the Church," And scroll down to the translation history of 2 Thess.2:3.  The entire passage in 2 Thess.2:1-8, is about a rapture of the Church, NOT a "falling away." which was a 1611 A.D. alteration. 

 

Quasar93

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, I see you are peddling the latest attempt to read a pre-trib rapture into the Scriptures. You make a vain attempt to evoke historic precedent, not realizing that the idea of spatial departure was never used in all 355 instances of the use of apostasia in Koine Greek literature. Every ancient theologian that wrote on the subject expected that the church would see the Beast (Antichrist) and suffer great tribulation at his hand before being rescued at Christ's coming. Every honest pre-trib scholar knows this well. What you are peddling is recent escapism that will leave the church unprepared for the greatest persecution to ever be experienced.

Tertullian: “That the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God....Since, then, the Scriptures both indicate the stages of the last times, and concentrate the harvest of the Christian hope in the very end of the world.”

Justin Martyr: “The man of apostasy...shall venture to do unlawful things on the earth against us, the Christians.”

The Pastor of Hermas: “Happy ye who endure the Great Tribulation that is coming.”

Irenaeus: “And the ten kings...shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight.”

Barnabas: “Take heed, lest resting at our ease, as those who are called of God, we should fall asleep in our sins, and the wicked prince, acquiring power over us, should thrust us away from the Kingdom of the Lord.”

Hippolytus: “Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary. That refers to the 1260 days during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.”

Each of these historic saints associate the church with the “great tribulation” persecution of the Antichrist. Not even one exempts the church from his reign of terror. There is no mention of a great escape of the church from great tribulation. That is a fantasy. Yes, we will be removed from the earth, before God's wrath begins to be poured out at the blowing of the first trumpet judgement, but most certainly, the church will face unprecedented persecution in the great tribulation until it is cut short by Christ's return.

In 2Thes 2 Paul is simply reiterating what Jesus taught in the Olivet Discourse. Jesus warned, again and again, about a great deception that would come right prior to His return. 

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Jesus mentioned that the persecution and deception would cause many to be offended resulting in them betraying and hating the true believers who refuse to take the mark or worship the Beast.

Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

He also mentioned that at the abomination of desolation unprecedented great tribulation would begin.

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We know that the abomination of desolation is when the Beast stands and sits in the temple shewing himself to be God (2Thes 2:3-8). It is this which defiles the temple thus causing the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Paul was letting the Thessalonians know that the day of Christ was not at hand because these significant events that Jesus spoke of had not happened yet. The persecution that they were experiencing was not that great tribulation that would come before Christ's return, because the man of sin is not yet revealed who begins the unparalleled persecution.

It's not that hard to see that the church (the elect) will face great tribulation, which is the wrath of Satan (Rev 12:12) through the Beast upon the church and Israel. This great persecution will be cut short to save some of the elect alive upon the earth (Matt 24:22). It will be cut short by Christ's return to resurrect the dead (1Cor 15:51-52), rapture those who are alive and remain together with the resurrected saints to Jesus in the clouds (1Thes 4:16-17; Matt 24:31), escort us safely to the Father house to stand before the throne (John 14:3, Rev 7:9-17), and later on the same day begin to pour out His wrath upon the unbelieving, Beast worshiping, earth dwellers (Rev 8-9, 16-19).

Get your teaching straightened out, so, that you are not rebuked at Christ's coming.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb.

 

[Daniel 11:36]

"Quasar93, I see you are peddling the latest attempt to read a pre-trib rapture into the Scriptures"

 

He is not reading it in to the scriptures .... you are reading it out

It is going to happen

[Quasar93]

1 hour ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, I see you are peddling the latest attempt to read a pre-trib rapture into the Scriptures. You make a vain attempt to evoke historic precedent, not realizing that the idea of spatial departure was never used in all 355 instances of the use of apostasia in Koine Greek literature. Every ancient theologian that wrote on the subject expected that the church would see the Beast (Antichrist) and suffer great tribulation at his hand before being rescued at Christ's coming. Every honest pre-trib scholar knows this well. What you are peddling is recent escapism that will leave the church unprepared for the greatest persecution to ever be experienced.

Tertullian: “That the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God....Since, then, the Scriptures both indicate the stages of the last times, and concentrate the harvest of the Christian hope in the very end of the world.”

Justin Martyr: “The man of apostasy...shall venture to do unlawful things on the earth against us, the Christians.”

The Pastor of Hermas: “Happy ye who endure the Great Tribulation that is coming.”

Irenaeus: “And the ten kings...shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight.”

Barnabas: “Take heed, lest resting at our ease, as those who are called of God, we should fall asleep in our sins, and the wicked prince, acquiring power over us, should thrust us away from the Kingdom of the Lord.”

Hippolytus: “Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary. That refers to the 1260 days during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.”

Each of these historic saints associate the church with the “great tribulation” persecution of the Antichrist. Not even one exempts the church from his reign of terror. There is no mention of a great escape of the church from great tribulation. That is a fantasy. Yes, we will be removed from the earth, before God's wrath begins to be poured out at the blowing of the first trumpet judgement, but most certainly, the church will face unprecedented persecution in the great tribulation until it is cut short by Christ's return.

 

In 2Thes 2 Paul is simply reiterating what Jesus taught in the Olivet Discourse. Jesus warned, again and again, about a great deception that would come right prior to His return. 

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Jesus mentioned that the persecution and deception would cause many to be offended resulting in them betraying and hating the true believers who refuse to take the mark or worship the Beast.

Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

He also mentioned that at the abomination of desolation unprecedented great tribulation would begin.

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We know that the abomination of desolation is when the Beast stands and sits in the temple shewing himself to be God (2Thes 2:3-8). It is this which defiles the temple thus causing the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Paul was letting the Thessalonians know that the day of Christ was not at hand because these significant events that Jesus spoke of had not happened yet. The persecution that they were experiencing was not that great tribulation that would come before Christ's return, because the man of sin is not yet revealed who begins the unparalleled persecution.

It's not that hard to see that the church (the elect) will face great tribulation, which is the wrath of Satan (Rev 12:12) through the Beast upon the church and Israel. This great persecution will be cut short to save some of the elect alive upon the earth (Matt 24:22). It will be cut short by Christ's return to resurrect the dead (1Cor 15:51-52), rapture those who are alive and remain together with the resurrected saints to Jesus in the clouds (1Thes 4:16-17; Matt 24:31), escort us safely to the Father house to stand before the throne (John 14:3, Rev 7:9-17), and later on the same day begin to pour out His wrath upon the unbelieving, Beast worshiping, earth dwellers (Rev 8-9, 16-19).

Get your teaching straightened out, so, that you are not rebuked at Christ's coming.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb.

 

 

In rebuttal of your personal opinions and advice to me, review the facts from sources that refute you.  Understand this: The pre-trib rapture of the Church taught by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, O posted in "The Biblical Teachings of the Pre-trib Rapture of the Church," in the Prophecy forum, is not in vain, now or ever!  Gor that?

 

 Is the Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? 

(By Thomas Ice)
 
 “Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction” (2nd Thessalonians 2:3).
 
I believe that there exists a strong possibility that 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking about the Rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself believe that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the Rapture and should be translated “departure.” Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the Rapture first takes place. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 supports strong evidence for pretribulationism.
 
THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2nd Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia) Moses.” The word is a Greek compound of apo, or “from” and istemi, or “stand.” Thus, it has the core meaning of “away from” or “departure.”
 
Liddell and Scott’s “A Greek English Lexicon” defines apostasia first as “defection, revolt”; then secondly as “departure, or disappearance.” Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:
 
The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1st Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:12).The word is used for departing from iniquity (2nd Timothy 2:19), from ungodly men (1st Timothy 6:5), from the Temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2nd Corinthians 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). “It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure.” Paul Lee Tan adds the following:
 
What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3) must come before the Tribulation? The definite article “the” denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for “falling away,” taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the Greeks have another word for that [pipto, I fall; TDI]. The best translation of the word is “to depart.” The Apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the Tribulation. This is the Rapture of the Church. So the word has the core meaning of “departure” and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as a departure from the faith.
 
TRANSLATION HISTORY
 
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608). This supports the notion that the word truly means “departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of AD 400 renders apostasia with the word discessio, meaning “departure.” Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of “departure”? Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as “falling away.” Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as “departure.” No good reason was ever given.
 
THE USE OF THE ARTICLE

It is important to note that Paul used a definite article with the noun apostasia. What does this mean? Davey notes the following:
 
Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article reference is being made to something in particular. In 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.”
 
Dr. Lewis provides a likely answer when he notes that the definite article serves to make a word distinct and draw attention to it. In this instance he believes that its purpose is “to denote a previous reference.” “The departure Paul previously referred to was ‘our being gathered to him’ (v. 1) and our being ‘caught up’ with the Lord and the raptured dead in the clouds (1st Thessalonians 4:17),” notes Dr. Lewis. 8 The “departure” was something that Paul and his readers clearly had a mutual understanding about. Paul said in verse 5, “Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? The use of the definite article would also support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernable event. A physical departure like the Rapture would fit just such a notion. However, the New Testament teaches that apostasy had already arrived in the first century (cf. Acts 20:27–32; 1st Timothy 4:1–5; 2nd Timothy 3:1–9; 2nd Peter 2:1–3; Jude 3–4, 17–21) and thus, such a process would not denote a clear event as demanded by the language of this passage. Understanding departure as the Rapture would satisfy the nuance of this text.
 
E. Schuyler English explains as follows:

Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on Earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began.
Whatever Paul is referring to in his reference to “the departure” was something that both the Thessalonian believers and he had discussed in depth previously. When we examine Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, he never mentioned the doctrine of apostasy; however, virtually every chapter in that epistle speaks of the Rapture (cf. 1:9–10; 2:19; probably 3:13; 4:13–17; 5:1–11). In these passages, Paul has used a variety of Greek terms to describe the Rapture. It should not be surprising that he used another term to reference the Rapture in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3. Dr. House tells us:
 
Remember, the Thessalonians had been led astray by the false teaching (2:2–3) that the “Day of the Lord” had already come. This was confusing because Paul offered great hope, in the first letter, of a departure to be with Christ and a rescue from God’s wrath. Now a letter purporting to be from Paul seems to say that they would first have to go through the “Day of the Lord.” Paul then clarified his prior teaching by emphasizing that they had no need to worry. They could again be comforted because the departure he had discussed in his first letter, and in his teaching while with them, was still the truth. The departure of Christians to be with Christ, and the subsequent revelation of the lawless one, Paul argues, is proof that the “Day of the Lord” had not begun as they had thought. This understanding of apostasia makes much more sense than the view that they are to be comforted (v. 2) because a defection from the faith must precede the “Day of the Lord.” The entire second chapter (as well as 1st Thessalonians 4:18; 5:11) serves to comfort (see vv. 2, 3, 17), supplied by a reassurance of Christ’s coming as taught in his first letter.
 
DEPARTURE AND THE RESTRAINER

Since pretribulationists believe that the restrainer mentioned in verses 6 and 7 is the Holy Spirit and teaches a pre-trib Rapture, then it should not be surprising to see that there is a similar progression of thought in the progression of verse 3. Allan MacRae, president of Faith Theological Seminary, in a letter to Schuyler English, has said the following concerning this matter:
 
I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7–8, a little further down.According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the Church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the Man of Sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: “And then shall that Wicked be revealed.” Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of “departure,” while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as “falling away” because of the proximity of the mention of the Man of Sin.
 
Kenneth Wuest, a Greek scholar from Moody Bible Institute, added the following contextual support to taking apostasia as a physical departure:
 
But then the apostasia of which Paul is speaking, precedes the revelation of Antichrist in his true identity, and is to katechon that which holds back his revelation (2:6). The hee apostasia, therefore, cannot be either a general apostasy in Christendom, which does precede the coming of Antichrist, nor can it be the particular apostasy, which is the result of his activities in making himself the alone object of worship. Furthermore, that which holds back his revelation (vs. 3) is vitally connected with hoo katechoon (vs. 7), He who holds back the same event.The latter is, in my opinion, the Holy Spirit and His activities in the Church. All of which means that I am driven to the inescapable conclusion that the hee apostasia (vs. 3) refers to the Rapture of the Church which precedes the “Day of the Lord,” and holds back the revelation of the Man of Sin who ushers in the world-aspect of that period.
 
CONCLUSION

The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear support for pretribulationism. If this is true, and I believe it is, then it means that a clear, prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his apostolic ministry. Paul taught in 2nd Thessalonians 2 that the Rapture would occur before the “Day of the Lord” commences. It is not until after the beginning of the “Day of the Lord” that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted people. Maranatha!
 

From:  http://focusonjerusalem.com/istheraptur ... onians.htm

 

The Pre-tribuation Rapture of the Church and interpretation in the above of 2 Thess.2:3, fully endorsed by the following:

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.

Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.

  
Quasar93
 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Quasar93

[Quasar93]

3 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

In rebuttal of your personal opinions and advice to me, review the facts from sources that refute you.  Understand this: The pre-trib rapture of the Church taught by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, O posted in "The Biblical Teachings of the Pre-trib Rapture of the Church," in the Prophecy forum, is not in vain, now or ever!  Gor that?

 

 Is the Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? 

(By Thomas Ice)
 
 “Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction” (2nd Thessalonians 2:3).
 
I believe that there exists a strong possibility that 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking about the Rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself believe that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the Rapture and should be translated “departure.” Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the Rapture first takes place. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 supports strong evidence for pretribulationism.
 
THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2nd Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia) Moses.” The word is a Greek compound of apo, or “from” and istemi, or “stand.” Thus, it has the core meaning of “away from” or “departure.”
 
Liddell and Scott’s “A Greek English Lexicon” defines apostasia first as “defection, revolt”; then secondly as “departure, or disappearance.” Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:
 
The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1st Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:12).The word is used for departing from iniquity (2nd Timothy 2:19), from ungodly men (1st Timothy 6:5), from the Temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2nd Corinthians 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). “It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure.” Paul Lee Tan adds the following:
 
What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3) must come before the Tribulation? The definite article “the” denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for “falling away,” taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the Greeks have another word for that [pipto, I fall; TDI]. The best translation of the word is “to depart.” The Apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the Tribulation. This is the Rapture of the Church. So the word has the core meaning of “departure” and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as a departure from the faith.
 
TRANSLATION HISTORY
 
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608). This supports the notion that the word truly means “departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of AD 400 renders apostasia with the word discessio, meaning “departure.” Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of “departure”? Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as “falling away.” Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as “departure.” No good reason was ever given.
 
THE USE OF THE ARTICLE

It is important to note that Paul used a definite article with the noun apostasia. What does this mean? Davey notes the following:
 
Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article reference is being made to something in particular. In 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.”
 
Dr. Lewis provides a likely answer when he notes that the definite article serves to make a word distinct and draw attention to it. In this instance he believes that its purpose is “to denote a previous reference.” “The departure Paul previously referred to was ‘our being gathered to him’ (v. 1) and our being ‘caught up’ with the Lord and the raptured dead in the clouds (1st Thessalonians 4:17),” notes Dr. Lewis. 8 The “departure” was something that Paul and his readers clearly had a mutual understanding about. Paul said in verse 5, “Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? The use of the definite article would also support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernable event. A physical departure like the Rapture would fit just such a notion. However, the New Testament teaches that apostasy had already arrived in the first century (cf. Acts 20:27–32; 1st Timothy 4:1–5; 2nd Timothy 3:1–9; 2nd Peter 2:1–3; Jude 3–4, 17–21) and thus, such a process would not denote a clear event as demanded by the language of this passage. Understanding departure as the Rapture would satisfy the nuance of this text.
 
E. Schuyler English explains as follows:

Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on Earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began.
Whatever Paul is referring to in his reference to “the departure” was something that both the Thessalonian believers and he had discussed in depth previously. When we examine Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, he never mentioned the doctrine of apostasy; however, virtually every chapter in that epistle speaks of the Rapture (cf. 1:9–10; 2:19; probably 3:13; 4:13–17; 5:1–11). In these passages, Paul has used a variety of Greek terms to describe the Rapture. It should not be surprising that he used another term to reference the Rapture in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3. Dr. House tells us:
 
Remember, the Thessalonians had been led astray by the false teaching (2:2–3) that the “Day of the Lord” had already come. This was confusing because Paul offered great hope, in the first letter, of a departure to be with Christ and a rescue from God’s wrath. Now a letter purporting to be from Paul seems to say that they would first have to go through the “Day of the Lord.” Paul then clarified his prior teaching by emphasizing that they had no need to worry. They could again be comforted because the departure he had discussed in his first letter, and in his teaching while with them, was still the truth. The departure of Christians to be with Christ, and the subsequent revelation of the lawless one, Paul argues, is proof that the “Day of the Lord” had not begun as they had thought. This understanding of apostasia makes much more sense than the view that they are to be comforted (v. 2) because a defection from the faith must precede the “Day of the Lord.” The entire second chapter (as well as 1st Thessalonians 4:18; 5:11) serves to comfort (see vv. 2, 3, 17), supplied by a reassurance of Christ’s coming as taught in his first letter.
 
DEPARTURE AND THE RESTRAINER

Since pretribulationists believe that the restrainer mentioned in verses 6 and 7 is the Holy Spirit and teaches a pre-trib Rapture, then it should not be surprising to see that there is a similar progression of thought in the progression of verse 3. Allan MacRae, president of Faith Theological Seminary, in a letter to Schuyler English, has said the following concerning this matter:
 
I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7–8, a little further down.According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the Church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the Man of Sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: “And then shall that Wicked be revealed.” Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of “departure,” while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as “falling away” because of the proximity of the mention of the Man of Sin.
 
Kenneth Wuest, a Greek scholar from Moody Bible Institute, added the following contextual support to taking apostasia as a physical departure:
 
But then the apostasia of which Paul is speaking, precedes the revelation of Antichrist in his true identity, and is to katechon that which holds back his revelation (2:6). The hee apostasia, therefore, cannot be either a general apostasy in Christendom, which does precede the coming of Antichrist, nor can it be the particular apostasy, which is the result of his activities in making himself the alone object of worship. Furthermore, that which holds back his revelation (vs. 3) is vitally connected with hoo katechoon (vs. 7), He who holds back the same event.The latter is, in my opinion, the Holy Spirit and His activities in the Church. All of which means that I am driven to the inescapable conclusion that the hee apostasia (vs. 3) refers to the Rapture of the Church which precedes the “Day of the Lord,” and holds back the revelation of the Man of Sin who ushers in the world-aspect of that period.
 
CONCLUSION

The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear support for pretribulationism. If this is true, and I believe it is, then it means that a clear, prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his apostolic ministry. Paul taught in 2nd Thessalonians 2 that the Rapture would occur before the “Day of the Lord” commences. It is not until after the beginning of the “Day of the Lord” that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted people. Maranatha!
 

From:  http://focusonjerusalem.com/istheraptur ... onians.htm 


Quasar93

 

Greek term 'apostasia' in 2 Thes.2:3 means 'departure' 


Here Mr. Wuest discusses 2Thes 2:3, specifically the meaning of "apostasia."  He asserts that it should be translated as 'departure' with reference to the rapture of the church. I have never come across this in any translation and I wonder if it is a correct exegesis of this verse?

"The words =93a falling away=94 are the Authorized Version rendering of apostasia. The verbal form afistamai from which it comes is present middle of afisthmi, the root verb, which we will study. The simple verb Jisthmi inits intransitive sense means =93 to stand,=94 the prefixed preposition means=93 off, away from,=94 and the compound verb, =93 to stand off from.=94 The=word does not mean =93 to fall.=94  The Greeks had a word for that, piptw.  Afisthmi, in=its various uses, is reported by Thayer as follows: =93 to make stand off, cause=to withdraw, to stand off, stand aloof, to desert, to withdraw from one=94; in contexts where a defection from the faith is in view, it means =93to fall away, become faithless.=94 The verb is rendered by the translators of the Authorized Version =93 to depart,=94 in Luke 2:32; Luke 4:13; Luke 13:27;=Acts 12:10; Acts 15:38; Acts 19:9; Acts 22:29; 2 Corinthians 12:8; 1 Timothy 4:1;2 Timothy 2:19; Hebrews 3:12. In Luke 8:13 it is translated =93 fall away,=94 in Acts 5:37, =93 drew away,=94 and in Acts 5:38, =93 refrain.=94 Had they translated the word here instead of interpreting it, they would have rendered it by the word =93 departure =94.  The reader will observe that the predominant=translation of the verbal form is =93 to depart,=94 also, that where it is translated =93 fall away,=94 the context adds the idea of =93 falling away =94 to the verb, which =action is still a departure.

E. Schuyler English, to whom this present writer is deeply in debted for calling his attention to the word =93 departure=94 as the correct rendering=ofapostasia in this context, also informs us that the following translators understood the Greek word to mean =93a departure=94 in this context: Tyndale(1534), Coverdale (1535), the Geneva Bible (1537), Cranmer (1539), and Beza(1565), and so used it in their translations. Apostasia is used once more inthe New Testament and is translated =93 to forsake=94 (AV), signifying a departure. The neuter noun apostasion in Matthew 5:31; Matthew 19:7; and Mark 10:4 is rendered by the Authorized Version, =93 divorcement,=94 which=word also signifies a departure, here, from antecedent relations.

The writer is well aware of the fact that apostasia was used at times bothin classical and koine Greek in the sense of a defection, a revolt in a religious sense, a rebellion against God, and of the act of apostasy. Liddell and Scott in their classical lexicon give the above as the first definition of the word. Moulton and Milligan quote a papyrus fragment where the word means =93a rebel.=94.  But these are acquired meanings of the word=gotten from the context in which it is used, not the original, basic, literal meaning, and should not be imposed upon the word when the context does not qualify the word by these meanings, as in the case of our Thessalonians passage, where the context in which apostasia is embedded does not refer to a defection from the truth but to the rapture of the church. The fact that our word =93 apostasy=94 means a defection from the truth is entirely beside=the point since we do not interpret Scripture upon the basis of a transliterated word to which a certain meaning has been given, but upon the basis of what the Greek word meant to the first century reader. The fact that Paul in 1Timothy 4:1 uses this verb in the words =93 some shall depart from the faith==94 and finds it necessary to qualify its meaning by the phrase =93 from the faith=94 indicates that the word itself has no such connotation. The translators of the Authorized Version did not translate the word, but offered their interpretation of it. They should have translated it and allowed the student to interpret it in its context.

With the translation of the word before us, the next step is to ascertain from the context that to which this departure refers. We note the presence of the Greek definite article before apostasia, of which the translation takes no notice.  A Greek word is definite in itself, and when the article is used the exegete must pay particular attention to it. =93.  The basal function=of the article is to point out individual identity. It does more than mark =91 the object as definitely conceived,=92 for a substantive in Greek is definite without the article.=94.  This departure, whatever it is, is a particular one,one differentiated from all others. Another function of the article is =93 todenote previous reference.=94.  Here the article points out an object the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context.=94 Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 has just spoken of the coming of the Lord. This coming is defined by the words =93 our gathering together unto=him,=94 not as the second advent, but as the rapture. The Greek word rendered =93 and=94 can also be translated =93 even,=94 and the translation reads, =93 the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, even our gathering together unto him.=94.

The article before apostasia defines that word by pointing to =93 the gathering together unto him =94 as that departure. This article determines the context which defines apostasia. The translators took the context of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 as deciding the significance of the word, but they went too far afield, not grasping the function of the definite article preceding apostasia which points back to the rapture of 2 Thessalonians 2:2, not ahead to the refusal to believe the truth of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12. The article is all-important here, as in many instances of its use in the Greek New Testament. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Paul had given these saints teaching on the rapture, and the Greek article here points to that which was well known to both the reader and the writer, which is another use of the Greek definite article. Thus, the departure of the church from earth to heaven must precede the great tribulation period. And we have answered our questions again. It might be added that the reason why Paul merely speaks of a pre-tribulation rapture rather than a pre-seventieth week rapture is that he is addressing himself to the needs of the Thessalonian saints and is not explaining the particular place of the rapture in the prophetic program of God."


By Kenneth S. Wuest


From:  http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/96-12/0863.html


Quasar93

 

[Steve Conley]

54 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

In rebuttal of your personal opinions and advice to me, review the facts from sources that refute you.  Understand this: The pre-trib rapture of the Church taught by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, O posted in "The Biblical Teachings of the Pre-trib Rapture of the Church," in the Prophecy forum, is not in vain, now or ever!  Gor that?

 

 Is the Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? 

(By Thomas Ice)
 
 “Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction” (2nd Thessalonians 2:3).
 
I believe that there exists a strong possibility that 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking about the Rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself believe that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the Rapture and should be translated “departure.” Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the Rapture first takes place. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 supports strong evidence for pretribulationism.
 
THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2nd Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia) Moses.” The word is a Greek compound of apo, or “from” and istemi, or “stand.” Thus, it has the core meaning of “away from” or “departure.”
 
Liddell and Scott’s “A Greek English Lexicon” defines apostasia first as “defection, revolt”; then secondly as “departure, or disappearance.” Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:
 
The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1st Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:12).The word is used for departing from iniquity (2nd Timothy 2:19), from ungodly men (1st Timothy 6:5), from the Temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2nd Corinthians 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). “It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure.” Paul Lee Tan adds the following:
 
What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3) must come before the Tribulation? The definite article “the” denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for “falling away,” taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the Greeks have another word for that [pipto, I fall; TDI]. The best translation of the word is “to depart.” The Apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the Tribulation. This is the Rapture of the Church. So the word has the core meaning of “departure” and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as a departure from the faith.
 
TRANSLATION HISTORY
 
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608). This supports the notion that the word truly means “departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of AD 400 renders apostasia with the word discessio, meaning “departure.” Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of “departure”? Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as “falling away.” Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as “departure.” No good reason was ever given.
 
THE USE OF THE ARTICLE

It is important to note that Paul used a definite article with the noun apostasia. What does this mean? Davey notes the following:
 
Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article reference is being made to something in particular. In 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.”
 
Dr. Lewis provides a likely answer when he notes that the definite article serves to make a word distinct and draw attention to it. In this instance he believes that its purpose is “to denote a previous reference.” “The departure Paul previously referred to was ‘our being gathered to him’ (v. 1) and our being ‘caught up’ with the Lord and the raptured dead in the clouds (1st Thessalonians 4:17),” notes Dr. Lewis. 8 The “departure” was something that Paul and his readers clearly had a mutual understanding about. Paul said in verse 5, “Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? The use of the definite article would also support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernable event. A physical departure like the Rapture would fit just such a notion. However, the New Testament teaches that apostasy had already arrived in the first century (cf. Acts 20:27–32; 1st Timothy 4:1–5; 2nd Timothy 3:1–9; 2nd Peter 2:1–3; Jude 3–4, 17–21) and thus, such a process would not denote a clear event as demanded by the language of this passage. Understanding departure as the Rapture would satisfy the nuance of this text.
 
E. Schuyler English explains as follows:

Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on Earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began.
Whatever Paul is referring to in his reference to “the departure” was something that both the Thessalonian believers and he had discussed in depth previously. When we examine Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, he never mentioned the doctrine of apostasy; however, virtually every chapter in that epistle speaks of the Rapture (cf. 1:9–10; 2:19; probably 3:13; 4:13–17; 5:1–11). In these passages, Paul has used a variety of Greek terms to describe the Rapture. It should not be surprising that he used another term to reference the Rapture in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3. Dr. House tells us:
 
Remember, the Thessalonians had been led astray by the false teaching (2:2–3) that the “Day of the Lord” had already come. This was confusing because Paul offered great hope, in the first letter, of a departure to be with Christ and a rescue from God’s wrath. Now a letter purporting to be from Paul seems to say that they would first have to go through the “Day of the Lord.” Paul then clarified his prior teaching by emphasizing that they had no need to worry. They could again be comforted because the departure he had discussed in his first letter, and in his teaching while with them, was still the truth. The departure of Christians to be with Christ, and the subsequent revelation of the lawless one, Paul argues, is proof that the “Day of the Lord” had not begun as they had thought. This understanding of apostasia makes much more sense than the view that they are to be comforted (v. 2) because a defection from the faith must precede the “Day of the Lord.” The entire second chapter (as well as 1st Thessalonians 4:18; 5:11) serves to comfort (see vv. 2, 3, 17), supplied by a reassurance of Christ’s coming as taught in his first letter.
 
DEPARTURE AND THE RESTRAINER

Since pretribulationists believe that the restrainer mentioned in verses 6 and 7 is the Holy Spirit and teaches a pre-trib Rapture, then it should not be surprising to see that there is a similar progression of thought in the progression of verse 3. Allan MacRae, president of Faith Theological Seminary, in a letter to Schuyler English, has said the following concerning this matter:
 
I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7–8, a little further down.According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the Church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the Man of Sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: “And then shall that Wicked be revealed.” Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of “departure,” while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as “falling away” because of the proximity of the mention of the Man of Sin.
 
Kenneth Wuest, a Greek scholar from Moody Bible Institute, added the following contextual support to taking apostasia as a physical departure:
 
But then the apostasia of which Paul is speaking, precedes the revelation of Antichrist in his true identity, and is to katechon that which holds back his revelation (2:6). The hee apostasia, therefore, cannot be either a general apostasy in Christendom, which does precede the coming of Antichrist, nor can it be the particular apostasy, which is the result of his activities in making himself the alone object of worship. Furthermore, that which holds back his revelation (vs. 3) is vitally connected with hoo katechoon (vs. 7), He who holds back the same event.The latter is, in my opinion, the Holy Spirit and His activities in the Church. All of which means that I am driven to the inescapable conclusion that the hee apostasia (vs. 3) refers to the Rapture of the Church which precedes the “Day of the Lord,” and holds back the revelation of the Man of Sin who ushers in the world-aspect of that period.
 
CONCLUSION

The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear support for pretribulationism. If this is true, and I believe it is, then it means that a clear, prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his apostolic ministry. Paul taught in 2nd Thessalonians 2 that the Rapture would occur before the “Day of the Lord” commences. It is not until after the beginning of the “Day of the Lord” that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted people. Maranatha!
 

From:  http://focusonjerusalem.com/istheraptur ... onians.htm 


Quasar93

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, I have no doubt that you can find all kinds of teachers, so called theologians, and/or pastors who will tell you what you want to hear. Paul told us this would be the case.

2Ti 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Heaping up false teachers doesn't make what your parroting true.

The historical record from Justin Martyr to Charles Spurgeon is the expectation of seeing the Antichrist and suffering great tribulation at his hand. This prosperity gospel escapism that has become entrenched in evangelical churches over the last 100 years will serve to help facilitate the apostasy that Jesus spoke of as happening before His coming. When many "professing Christians" experience persecution and the lying wonders of the false prophet they will be offended and fall away.

What will you do when you see the Beast and are asked to take the mark or starve or be beheaded? It is absolutely certain that the last generation of the church will experience the most severe persecution.

I was a pre-trib teacher for thirty years and considered myself an expert. I was practically a disciple of Thomas Ice and the Pre-trib Research Center. Then the Lord had mercy on me and showed me that I was reading a flawed eschatological system into the text. Over a period of time, the Lord, with the text of the Holy Scriptures, demolished all the erroneous supports that I had for the pre-trib rapture. I know how hard it was for me to realize I was wrong, so, I'm not expecting any quick movement by any one away from a pre-trib position to the Biblical model that has come to be called pre-wrath.

Notwithstanding, if you are in the last generation of the church, you will see the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem and the revelation of the Beast, you will experience the wrath of Satan cast to the earth through the Beast and false prophet, and if you survive to the coming of Christ you will not die physically but be changed and raptured. When it happens know that you were told. It is all in the Holy Scriptures.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

End of the Age Chart PDF.pdf

Edited April 20, 2018 by Steve Conley
Chart was fuzzy, added PDF