Do we have to do good works to be saved ?

[Dan_79]

29 minutes ago, Riccardo said:

Hi Dan,

If you think Paul teaches a different philosophy  you would be saying that ALL scripture is not God breathed & Paul should not be in the cannon of scripture, or he is not from God, I would say he is clarifying 

Hi, I would say search your bible and ask as many questions as you feel you need to ask and when you think you need to conclude double check.

Many people here will argue this and that and I am glad they have a critical mind to ask me also. It is very thorny asking questions regarding peoples beliefs, par of the course in my view (it is a forum at the end of the day). I do nlt expect to make any friends here but why should that stop my learning about the bible and my own salvation or that of others?

John gives a warning regarding this "other" Jesus being preached as does James.

The bible is very clear on that.

I dont call Gods commandments or the work of Jesus into question.

Jesus clearly says to the pillars (his chosen) of the gospels to refrain from doing sin after you believe on him.

Pauls letters do speak some about some, in 3rd person narratives. There are plenty of resources online who explain why Paul was in error and why he felt the need to cover his tracks. John gives a brilliant warning. I guess you need to make up your own mind.

One thing you will learn is how hostile people are as soon as you question anything they believe in, something I still do not fully understand but is why I question Paul, if you are correct what harm can scrutiny on such an important issue do? If I am incorrect what harm can it do to read and study what others offer to correct me?

The truth is always standing at the end no matter how much obfuscation people try to use. 

The more hostility there is on an issue the closer you are to observing what people say and why they say what they do.

I am still searching for truth (elsewhere also) as it doesnt harm me to do so and to do good works and keep the commandments (that reflect my faith in the Lord) I will continue to do.

If others think I. " not saved" they are acting as some arbitary judge ahead of the Lord and will be made to give account of such which is why I refrain from doing so.

Keep searching.

Keep asking.

Settle for no substitute.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Dan_79

[Riccardo]

21 minutes ago, Dan_79 said:

Many people here will argue this and that and I am glad they have a critical mind to ask me also. It is very thorny asking questions regarding peoples beliefs, par of the course in my view (it is a forum at the end of the day). I do nlt expect to make any friends here but why should that stop my learning about the bible and my own salvation or that of others?

John gives a warning regarding this "other" Jesus being preached as does James.

The bible is very clear on that.

I dont call Gods commandments or the work of Jesus into question.

Jesus clearly says to the pillars (his chosen) of the gospels to refrain from doing sin after you believe on him.

Pauls letters do speak some about some, in 3rd person narratives. There are plenty of resources online who explain why Paul was in error and why he felt the need to cover his tracks. John gives a brilliant warning. I guess you need to make up your own mind.

One thing you will learn is how hostile people are as soon as you question anything they believe in, something I still do not fully understand but is why I question Paul, if you are correct what harm can scrutiny on such an important issue do? If I am incorrect what harm can it do to read and study what others offer to correct me?

The truth is always standing at the end no matter how much obfuscation people try to use. 

The more hostility there is on an issue the closer you are to observing what people say and why they say what they do.

I am still searching for truth (elsewhere also) as it doesnt harm me to do so and to do good works and keep the commandments (that reflect my faith in the Lord) I will continue to do.

If others think I. " not saved" they are acting as some arbitary judge ahead of the Lord and will be made to give account of such which is why I refrain from doing so.

Keep searching.

Keep asking.

Settle for no substitute.

Yes Dan,  People are strange creatures, they all say they don't know everything but when your understanding differs from yours YOU are in error, not them. My point to your understanding is as I said if Paul disagrees with Jesus who is in error? I would have to say Paul, I believe he does not contradict Jesus but explains Jesus differently.

Could you wright down the texts for me that you think contradict Jesus for me please, sorry if you already have in previously.

 

 

[Heb 13:8]

15 hours ago, Butero said:

I understand where you are coming from.  I have heard others that cling to the writing of Paul claim that books like James are in error.  I don't think either are true.  Paul just says things in a way that is not always easily understood.  If you read his comments carefully, you will find that the entire New Testament goes together, it does not contradict.  

Well, we cling to the Word of God and also the finished work of the cross because they are both tangible in the hearts and minds of believers. James 2 (Faith and Deeds) is actually talking about Godly righteousness, not salvation. God bless.

[Riccardo]

27 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

James 2 (Faith and Deeds) is actually talking about Godly righteousness, not salvation. God bless.

James 2:14-20    James 2:20 but do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is  dead.

(It is a dead faith), if it is a dead faith, it is a non existent faith. Therefore it is about salvation. God bless

[Wayne222]

11 minutes ago, Riccardo said:

James 2:14-20    James 2:20 but do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is  dead.

(It is a dead faith), if it is a dead faith, it is a non existent faith. Therefore it is about salvation. God bless

Faith without works is dead. Meaning it is not living. Does not mean works earn you salvation. Paul said we are saved by faith not of works. A faith that is living will bring forth works. A living person will bring forth works. A dead person will not bring forth works.But the works the living petson does did not give him life. But is just what a living person does.

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, Riccardo said:

James 2:14-20    James 2:20 but do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is  dead.

(It is a dead faith), if it is a dead faith, it is a non existent faith. Therefore it is about salvation. God bless

I guess I can word that better. It's not about losing salvation, rather it's about Godly righteousness or lack thereof. It's similar to how God doesn't send believers to hell for lack of maturity in Heb 5:11-14, Heb 6:1-6.

James 2:21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.

James 2:24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

James 2:25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

Quote

..

James 2:10 is why Jesus died in our place and why our sins are paid for God bles

[FresnoJoe]

When One Is Save

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Hebrews 10:22-24

One WILL Do Good Works

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Riccardo]

2 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

3 hours ago, Riccardo said:

James 2:14-20    James 2:20 but do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is  dead.

(It is a dead faith), if it is a dead faith, it is a non existent faith. Therefore it is about salvation. God bless

Faith without works is dead. Meaning it is not living. Does not mean works earn you salvation. Paul said we are saved by faith not of works. A faith that is living will bring forth works. A living person will bring forth works. A dead person will not bring forth works.But the works the living petson does did not give him life. But is just what a living person does.

Nowhere have I over said we can earn our way to heaven.

And you may be just trying to clarify for some people who read this blog, so I will add more.

 Faith with out works, is saying, you say you have faith but your actions prove otherwise. Therefore your actions display your faith. The faith that saves. James 2:20 But do you not know O foolish man, that faith with out works is dead. Meaning the faith you say you have is not there, you are all words, if you had the faith you say, it would automatically be displayed by your actions. 

Everyone seems to get so hung up about doing good works, which the bible says is a reflection of your faith. Your faith, which is in Christ & HIS finished works.

 He did good works did he not, he is not labelled a legalist, aren't we suppose to be more Christ like. As long as we realise we cannot earn our way to heaven but only through His works & our faith in Him & his works, along with repentance etc the rest of the basics. We should be saved.

[Dan_79]

God will search our hearts, each will tell its story.

Some people feel guilt more readily than others if they do something quite bad others feel more guilt over less, some people show no remorse for harming others or doing bad while others show extreme remorse and judge themselves to death, others again are quick to anger and express negative feelings others wouldnt say boo to a goose or harm a fly.

Strong in spiritual battle are the meek.

God gives the intructions to live by and Jesus gave us a perfect example to follow and will be coming to collect his faithful flock.

The battle line has been drawn in each and is at the very heart of the matter.

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Dan_79

[JTC]

On 4/27/2018 at 11:44 PM, other one said:

No we don't do good works to be saved......   but if you are saved you will have good works of some kind....   it's just natural.

I agree with this. I also didn't read the whole thread. If you're saved 1 to 5 yrs you may not have many good works. But if you're saved 20 yrs you better have quite a few. If not you probably weren't sincere in accepting Jesus. However, you also may live in a strange place, probably without TV, and you have received the worst teaching there is. Although, 35 to 50 yrs ago no one taught the importance of good works and the necessity of not sinning. I mean major sins like a married man who cheated on his wife consistently for 25 yrs. Guys like him make me glad I'm not Jesus because this guy honestly believed he was saved. I don't know what Jesus will do with such people, and I'm afraid there are many like him. Maybe guys like him are who Paul meant in 1 Corinthians ch 3. (and this is another reason we want to have good works). Apparently when some Christians are given their life review they suffer much loss. They will be saved but as 1 who was rescued from fire. I really wish the Bible had been very clear on this but it isn't. Personally, I hope to avoid the fire altogether, but I may not. I think I used to do better before I joined my first church and heard about how sins don't matter. I always knew that's not true, but I was young and a new believer and they told me what I wanted to hear. But all my Bible readings tell me what we do is of the utmost importance to God.