Born again, a “real” birth.

[Gideon]

Where things get foggy for me is when we are told that for carnal believers, their works will be burnt up and they will be saved, but as though by fire. 

Now, anyone who identifies with this must beware that they not take comfort in at least getting in to Heaven so it is no big deal that their works are burnt up. 

Why? Because as long as one is walking in their old nature, with sin still active in their life, the effect of sin is that it hardens one’s heart. Faith can indeed be choked out, and salvation lost. Enduring to the end is critical for one to be saved at the end. 

blessings, me

[Mike Mclees]

5 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Where things get foggy for me is when we are told that for carnal believers, their works will be burnt up and they will be saved, but as though by fire. 

Now, anyone who identifies with this must beware that they not take comfort in at least getting in to Heaven so it is no big deal that their works are burnt up. 

Why? Because as long as one is walking in their old nature, with sin still active in their life, the effect of sin is that it hardens one’s heart. Faith can indeed be choked out, and salvation lost. Enduring to the end is critical for one to be saved at the end. 

blessings, me

I think we need to ask ourselves why their works are burned up? Also why are you bringing it up Motives come to my mind and then pride

[Gideon]

2 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

I think we need to ask ourselves why their works are burned up? Also why are you bringing it up Motives come to my mind and then pride

I  am sure that plays a part, Mike. However, I think it may be as simple as “they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” Isn’t that why Jesus came and died, because in the flesh, there is none good, no, not one. That is why we are told that nothing profits but a new creature.

If we are in the flesh and do something we think is good, even if our motive might have been good, the result as you said is that pride will creep in, it is simply the human condition of our old natures. We will give Jesus all the glory, or so we say, LOL, but pride always likes ‘just a little’of the glory for ourselves. Look what I did with God’s help. Right?

One thing I have consistently seen in those who have come to the place where they are broken and desperate and who clothe themselves with their new man and humility comes to the forefront.... immediately.  As one begins to walk in their new nature, there is such an awareness that it is actually God who does EVERYTHING, and yes, even the things you actually do. He has simply done them through you and you would rather died than steal any glory from God who alone is worthy. 

Blessings, brother

Gideon

 

[Gideon]

28 minutes ago, Yowm said:

We need to see God as an active participant in our salvation and not an impotent bystander wringing his hands hoping we will do better.

for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. (Php 2:13)

Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen. (Heb 13:20-21)

It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—
(Joh 6:45)

To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power,
(2Th 1:11)

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Rom 8:37-39)

who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
(1Pe 1:5)
 

Brother, God is waiting for us to see we CANNOT do better, as long as we are in our flesh. Those scriptures you share are wonderful and they are true for us.... IF we have come to the place we hate our old nature and have reckoned it dead by faith. 

But make no mistake, God is not going to change our rebellious old nature little by little into a nicer version of self. They that are in the flesh cannot please God. CANNOT. Nothing profits but a new creature.

God has offered us brand new natures, and all those verses are assurances to us that every step we take in our land of promises is our possession. But as long as we see this as a “joint venture”, with us still in the driver’s seat, claiming all the promises of God but never coming to the point we lose our life to find His life in us, because we do not see a need because ‘we are really not that bad’,  we are simply deluding ourselves.

God has a walk for us that is beyond wonderful, where we are rescued out of the defeat of Romans 7 and turned into a fruitful field, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil. But until we want it more than our next breath, and do not even believe such a walk is possible, despite clear promises, we will simply take another lap around Sinai. 

Blessings, 

Gideon

[FinallyAlive]

14 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Already know that.

Know that too.

Faith healers make the same claim. But our healing of our bodies will be fully realized when we receive our new bodies. The same holds true with 'sinlessness' and a perfect walk. I want it but know it wont be fully realized until we are with Him.

Until thn there is that battle (Eph 6) and I would not be under a delusion to think otherwise...

For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
(Gal 5:17) 

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
(Eph 6:12-18)
 

It is interesting that you omitted the verse in Galatians previous to the one posted, which is:

“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh”

Then you do however, quote one of the most uplifting and wonderful promise-filled verses:

“In *all* circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish *all* the flaming darts of the evil one”

Brother, believe me when I say this, I wish *all* of us brothers and sisters in Christ could live this way. The (seemingly) few of us who have had their eyes opened to these exact promises are treated like heretics, though we are merely sharing what is written. What a contented Christian might read as “a nice thought”, to me, personally, is such a glorious assurance. I have been forever changed, for the better, through no special piety or doing of my own. For I am nothing without Christ, but through Him, I can do all things. We may not see eye to eye on this matter, but I pray that someday, if God’s will, that might change.

While we may not be able to achieve earthly “perfection” on the level of Jesus, let us all find ourselves truly endlessly walking in His Spirit, letting the endless noise and profanity and evil ways of this world not have any power over us at all, and let our own world-centric thoughts give way to the awesome power and glory of the Mind of Christ, focused squarely on what truly matters, His Will for us. Let us all see the world and its ways for what they are. Let us not care about what others may think of us, but instead hold fast to how we might be viewed in the sight of our Lord. Let us work together, uplifting one another, encouraging each other to always obey and follow His Spirit with unflinching faith.

The New Testament is full of fantastic promises, if only our eyes can see.

[Sower]

27 minutes ago, Gideon said:

God has offered us brand new natures, and all those verses are assurances to us that every step we take in our land of promises is our possession. But as long as we see this as a “joint venture”, with us still in the driver’s seat, claiming all the promises of God but never coming to the point we lose our life to find His life in us, because we do not see a need because ‘we are really not that bad’,  we are simply deluding ourselves.

God has a walk for us that is beyond wonderful, where we are rescued out of the defeat of Romans 7 and turned into a fruitful field, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil. But until we want it more than our next breath, and do not even believe such a walk is possible, despite clear promises, we will simply take another lap around Sinai. 

My take, my belief. God has not just offered me a new nature, He has said I AM a new creature, and I live, but not I, but Christ lives in me. I am in the driver's seat of my walk. I decide. So does everybody else. It's a nice thought to believe God turns the steering wheel, but it is in my hands. My walk, my responsibility. He can and does reach down and change my course when needed. When I drive irresponsibly and crash, (sin)I do not blame it on God's driving. I had this discussion with Yowm, about flying an airplane, but I say the controls are in my hands. Call it a walk, driving or flying, whatever.  God is not my co pilot, He is my instructor, my Light, to see by. I have connection with the Holy Spirit, to hear by. I'm told to abide, to stay/abide in Christ, listen, obey, act wisely, discern, call upon scriptures hidden inside, to hear the voice of my creator (who designed me) through the Holy Spirit. I do as the scripture tells me. If I don't follow directions, I miss the mark, I tell/confess God, I get back on course. I resent the idea that you think there are not many believers out there who have learned the scriptures and are applying what they have learned to live a victorious life. Through what God has shown THEM, without your twelve step program. I have been growing over the years of my life in Christ, and it took all those years to learn so many lessons from my Lord. There is no quick fix to walking in Christ. It takes a life. But  I trust in the Lord and not man's understanding. In all my ways (walk) I acknowledge HIM, to receive His direction, as I am the one walking/driving. By the way, I sin daily, sometimes hourly. (several times composing this post) To say otherwise, I would have to confess pride, and a lie. God's word is true. God's promises are true. God is Light.   To see Php_4:13  I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

PS: With the exception of scripture study and prayer, confessing all sin, no matter how tiny, when it occurs, has changed/ my ability to ABIDE.  THEN,  I have been cleansed from ALL unrighteousness. Fellowship remains.
You said: "claiming all the promises of God but never coming to the point we lose our life" I don't claim God's promises. I believe them.

 

 

[Gideon]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Already know that.

Know that too.

Faith healers make the same claim. But our healing of our bodies will be fully realized when we receive our new bodies. The same holds true with 'sinlessness' and a perfect walk. I want it but know it wont be fully realized until we are with Him.

Until then there is that battle (Eph 6) and I would not be under a delusion to think otherwise...

For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
(Gal 5:17) 

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
(Eph 6:12-18)
 

As to your last comment concerning Galatians 5:17, we cannot forget that Paul has already told us:

“But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. “

He also says that we owe the flesh NOTHING. Yes, we still have fleshly bodies, but we keep those under, by the Spirit  of God inside us. Our battle is no longer with US. Our old nature is dead. But as long as we believe we still have to deal with a traitor inside, and that God will not do as He promised to do and to keep us from sin.... from committing sin...then we leave the door open for Satan to attack us and there will be no rest, for we have not ceased from our own efforts to walk pleasing to God. 

As to your using the word “sinless”, I may be wrong, but I do not believe I have ever used that term. There is a huge difference between being sinless, a statewe somehow ‘achieve’ and kept by the power of God through faith, which is when we abide in the vine and do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, 

The battle you speak of is our battle against Satan, who will try desperately to pry those promises out of our mouths and to return to ur previous lives of unbelief. With our shields of faith held high that it is no more us that live, but Christ who now lives in us, we find real palpable victory over the world, the flesh and the devil not only possible but assured. God has told us that we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us, and that we can not only bring every action to  the obedience of Christ, but every thought as well. 

Why can we not simply believe our God? Unbelief has caused us to limit the Holy One of Israel, but as we awaken to who we truly are,  and what God has already accomplished for us with His death AND His resurrection, we see Satan for who he really is, and we confidently stare him down when he tempts us.

Why? Because God has not only made a way of escape in every one, and assured us that it will never be stronger than we can bear without caving to it, He also causes us to take that way of escape! Glory to God! This is not sinless perfectionism of which we share. It is abiding in the vine. And as we do, the graft grows stronger, and our ability to not waver ever increases! 

Blessings,

Gideon 

[FinallyAlive]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

IOW, You pray That my eyes would be open? Since I don't count myself as one of 'the seemingly few'. Do you not believe many of us have been gloriously saved? We do not see eye to eye because the pride is over my head, and frankly...I'm tired of it.

I do not scatter “secret meaning” in my words. They are meant to be transparent. I am sorry you took it that way. I called myself a Christian for years, but I never knew what that truly meant. I was double-minded. I cared about and gave my thoughts, efforts and attention to so many other things in this world above our Lord. And the kicker? I didn’t even realize it. When I write, it’s merely done so in an effort to share how fully God has changed me.

But imagine a dot to dot drawing, and everyone having a different opinion about what order the lines should be drawn in. So many different people can look at the same set and see and understand something completely different, speculating about what the final drawing should be. It’s probably why we have so many different denominations today. We all read the same Bible, yet we each seem to understand the Word differently.

I have no desire to be prideful nor arrogant, nor do I mean to come off in that respect. That said, I know how deeply and permanently I have been changed. I can’t deny Him who changed me fully.

[enoob57]

It is not a hard evidence of the need of God daily ...

Lam 3:20-24

20 My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me.

21 This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.

22 It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

24 The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.
KJV

[JTC]

I know I'm unusual in many ways, my relationship with God is no different. I don't feel like I was Born Again and then changed. After some 35 yrs I know I've been Born Again, my life attests to it. A little personal history first. I was born & raised Catholic but I wasn't a good Catholic. However, even at 5 yrs old I was asking my father questions about Jesus, questions he couldn't answer. After being confirmed I quit going to church, the mass was in Latin and I didn't get anything from it. At 18 I quit believing God was real, I was an intellectual type and I wanted a god that made sense. A few yrs later, the only girl who I ever loved went to a church and got saved. She then spent another 3 yrs trying to convince me God is real. At the same time, very strange things started to happen in my life. Anyone remember those Tracts about getting saved? All of a sudden I was finding them wherever I went. I tried reading a KJV Bible but me and old English don't get along. I made it worse by starting with Revelation. More weird things happened. I went in a bar 1 night and some girl asked me where I'm from, I didn't want to tell her. So smart guy I thought I was, I said Babylon. (this is a town called Babylon near me) Well, this girl who worked for the bar and made money by getting customers to buy her a drink said to me, "aren't you glad you're not from the original Babylon". She knew more about God than me. That was very unexpected. Then on another night, while doing a good deed but also very drunk, I was in a mall. A very odd looking fellow came up to me and handed me something with writing on it, another Tract? No, it was the Gospel According to John, in the NIV which was brand new. Did this mean God is real and He wants me to read His book? Naw, I rejected that. Nevertheless, sober on Monday morning I started reading it. Please realize I didn't even know translations other than KJ even existed. But I didn't want to give up my scientific beliefs and believe in a God I couldn't see. I was very stubborn. I then bought the rest of the NIV Bible, to my shock I was enjoying it. I wanted to be very sure if I was going to believe in this so-called God. 

I prayed 1 of my first prayers. I told God He had to prove to me He's real, beyond any doubts. (I always He heard He can't do that so I figured I trapped Him) About a week later I was in a bar again, and it wasn't a nice bar. I had a beer in my hand when I noticed some girl bowed down to a $1 dollar bill she was given. Immediately I heard in my head, Because she bowed down to that dollar it will rip in her hands. And then it did. I never saw money rip like that. I put my beer down and ran 6 blocks to the train that took me home. I kept thinking, "I almost don't believe it but God was in there with me. Then I got scared as I realized God is not going to leave me alone. I can't even go out drinking in peace. What did I get myself into? So then I read the Bible and articles about the Bible, on the train. I expected someone to mock me but no one did. That too was strange. I guess a year went by, during that year I became Born Again. I had changed.

I then searched for a church and finally I found one. Of course my family didn't like all this, they wanted me Catholic again. I couldn't do it. That's my story, thank you for reading it.