I Have A Disagreement Concerning A Bible Verse

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, Debp said:

Nero would also use Christians as human torches to light his gardens.

The whole point is to be blameless before Yahweh who ultimately gives all authority everywhere.

It is a tough pill to swallow for us 'free' westerners. But in reality, there is no authority except it first comes from the Lord. "We are led like lambs to the slaughter all the day long."

We must not forget that this world is NOT our home, yet we must bring glory to the Lord whenever possible.

"Hold you peace and let the Lord fight your battles".

[enoob57]

It is a glorious time as we have been told all things by our Lord in His Sealed Word of Truth... the whole of the structure is we in Christ win and there will be no losses in this....

[BeyondET]

On May 8, 2018 at 3:51 PM, LadyKay said:

I was looking up something in the Bible when I came across Romans 13:3 which reads    For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 

While I do not know what the state of things were back in Bible times when Paul said this. If rulers and laws at that time were fair and just?  I do know that rules and laws in the US have not always been fair and just.  I know from personal experience that there have been people who have been living good and upright lives, only to be wrongly accused of something and wrongly punished for it. They now live with this fear  of authority and that such a thing could happen again to them. Back in slave times blacks lived in fear of the rulers and of authority for no other reason other then the fact they they were black. Many people though out history of the US have been punished by those in authority by unjust laws that went against a person's race.  So how then can it be true that doing right will allow you to live free from fear of authority? If unjust laws and dishonest people are placed in authority?  

For those who obey their rules basically if you don't obey their rules then terror will reign down on you.

do you want to be free from fear then overcoming that fear is the right thing to do, Lets say the rulers say you must do this or you will die or do the right thing by scipture, where is the fear in that, I'd say a fear of being beaten to death or what ever is a powerful fear.

[Neighbor]

Acts 4:1-22 English Standard Version (ESV)

Peter and John Before the Council (of the Sanhedrin)

"And as they were speaking to the people, the priests and the captain of the temple and the Sadducees came upon them, ² greatly annoyed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection from the dead. ³ And they arrested them and put them in custody until the next day, for it was already evening.  But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men came to about five thousand.

 On the next day their rulers and elders and scribes gathered together in Jerusalem, with Annas the high priest and Caiaphas and John and Alexander, and all who were of the high-priestly family.  And when they had set them in the midst, they inquired, “By what power or by what name did you do this?”  Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders,  if we are being examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed,  let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well.  This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.  But seeing the man who was healed standing beside them, they had nothing to say in opposition.  But when they had commanded them to leave the council, they conferred with one another,  saying, “What shall we do with these men? For that a notable sign has been performed through them is evident to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it.  But in order that it may spread no further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to anyone in this name.”  So they called them and charged them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge,  for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.”  And when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way to punish them, because of the people, for all were praising God for what had happened.  For the man on whom this sign of healing was performed was more than forty years old."

 

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Personal note:

Peter and John were uneducated, not ignorant for they spoke two languages at least, but were uneducated in formal theologic presentation by any recognized body of teaching, though they would have had life long awareness of the Hebrew Bible ( and also Roman law and the Hebrew civil law and religious Law over them). Yet both peter and John were able to mount a defense that amazed the Sanhedrin and caused the Sanhedrin body of scholars to be perplexed as to what to do about them.

The Sanhedrin could not deny the fact of the man standing with both Peter and John as they mounted their defense. For the man was there, standing healed of his ailment and plight of having been crippled!  The Sanhedrin could not risk having Peter and john killed under such circumstance. So they settled for declaring that Peter and John were not to again be declaring the gospel of Jesus.

And thus the conflict for any believer in the gospel of Jesus before an unsaved world of deniers of Jesus as lord god and personal savior.  Go into all the world declaring Jesus is God or to obey the decrees of delagated government, government whose delegated authority is from God!

 The answer is to be prepared and to know the world of God, to realize that all government(s) in fact all things are under God's sovereign power; that even when government is doing that which is not the will of God it serves God's good purpose. Even the most horrible of things works together for the good of those that believe on Jesus as Lord God and savior.

So, when government is oppressive  to the believer in Jesus as Lord, the delegated authority  is to be respectfully denied it's decree that is against the direct command of Jesus who gave it it's delegated authority. Plus the believer needs to have confidence that at the time of weak kneed trepidation under oppression from government of any kind at any level, that the Holy Spirit will aid in making the right decision known to the believer for his or her study of the word well ahead of issues, life and death issues even, will be brought  to the forefront of the believer's mind; and his spirit and soul will  react accordingly.

 It is and will be just as it was for the apostles. Many saints even those in the USA will be called soon, if not even this very day, and the demand made by God's delegated authorities of each saint to stop the sharing of the gospel of Jesus.

Local boards of unelected citizens already do their best to take all reference to Jesus away and to deny any saint from proclaiming Jesus is Lord. Court Judges are already favoring oppressors against the gospel of Jesus in civil disputes all across this country. Administrative law makers of government at all levels are already against Jesus  and oppressing saints more and more boldly.  And now, criminal law is working hard via elected officials trying to create new laws to prevent and to punish by incarceration the spread of the gospel of jesus by calling the sharing of the gospel a hate crime against other beliefs.

Yes all government is created by God and all things do work together for the good of those that  believe on Jesus as lord, but that  also means when government goes against God the saint must respectfully resist government, still declaring Jesus as Lord and pray for the very authorities that  oppress the saints! 

 Peter and John faced their accusers and gave testimony of Jesus to the entire Sanhedrin body, while facing the possibility of death  for doing so.  And so must all saints, be prepared to do likewise today.  Armor up in the word of God, for oppression is soon to be upon many of us if not all. be well prepare dot mount a defense of the gospel, pray for our oppressors that the holy spirit might save many of them as they hear the testimony of the saints even unto the death decrees upon many  if not all that do resist for the sake of the gospel of Jesus.

-Sorry, my own apology is offered for not having the ability to be succinct. This post is way too long for this kind of format.

 

 

[Deb711]

Maybe it’s talking about living free once we are gone from here?

[BeyondET]

On May 9, 2018 at 10:39 PM, Yowm said:

And it is a fear that is opposite of faith...

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
(Heb 11:36-39)
 

Opposite of faith hmm maybe or maybe not, to fear the lord is of my faith.

does fear have a place in faith in your life ?

[BeyondET]

5 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I'm referring to cringing fear, not the fear of God.

And then what was your point, are you saying man didn't cringe of fear of skin ripped off his bones. I'm just not quite sure why you posted in the first place honestly, please explain so I can better understand what i was speaking that needs correcting? 

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:25 PM, Butero said:

As a general rule, people who are law abiding citizens do not go to jail and are not punished.  They will lead a peaceful existence.  That is not a hard, fast rule, to mean there are never any exceptions in a fallen world.  You will always have a person in power that is unstable, like a Nero, that you will have reason to be concerned over.  Still, as a whole, it is criminals and evil doers that go around having to fear the law coming after them.  

But as you said and SOON we will see,  theirs going to be a world wide nero and neros and their all inclusive mindset will be coming full force against those who resisted

SATAN.  yes I did say SATANS all inclusive gathering .     BUT we don't fear persecution , suffering or even death .   JESUS ONLY will be told

and he is not an all inclusive many way false love sin minister either .     I wonder how long it will be , before even here I am kicked off for preaching against SATANS

yes , SATANS all inclusive interfaith hug all , embrace all paths CEPT TRUTH religion .     I don't think too much longer .   but that don't mean tomorrow either . 

[BeyondET]

22 minutes ago, Yowm said:

There is a fear of man and beast etc., and a fear of God. I was only making that sort of distinction, not judging which side you fall on.

I got that, now let's get back to what you said, you quoted me possibly because something I said didn't sound right or what?

[BeyondET]

On May 9, 2018 at 10:39 PM, Yowm said:

And it is a fear that is opposite of faith...

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
(Heb 11:36-39)
 

Maybe I am starting to get what you mean, though you say they had a good report through faith No not at all that's why they were cursed to wonder the wilderness for 40 years, without faith it is impossible to please God, Hebrews 11:6

Fear of being tormented beaten stoned afflicted killed etc, is real and takes real faith to overcome and forgive.

i am still not quite sure why you quoted me, what triggered you?