Calvinism and Freewill

[Justin Adams]

Predestination DOES NOT equal foreknowledge. 

Ramification - no human free will.

Wrong!!

We are Imagers of God, so predestination negates this. Therefore this is false.

Yahweh steers His Creation but does not micromanage every person's free will.

God is bigger than His Creation. He wants our involvement in His accomplishments.

His decreed end He will accomplish. He designed this from the beginning and made adjustments for this in a continual dynamic involvement with His free children.

[Guest shiloh357]

9 hours ago, Yowm said:

Yes, they have a gnostic twist to them as they believe God does an initial work in the heart of the elect apart from the Word to prepare them to receive the Word...go figure.

Yes, it is their unbiblical taken on regeneration, where someone must be "regenerated"  in order to obey the Gospel and God (according to them) only regenerates "the elect."  It is totally unbiblical take on regeneration.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Butero said:

They are two different things.  A prophet can have foreknowledge, but they didn't predestine for something to happen.  Only the creator can do that, as in the case of Judas Iscariot or the Apostle Paul, who was a chosen vessel.  

Except that the Bible doesn't treat the foreknowledge of God as if it is the same predestination.  You are assigning something to foreknowledge that Scripture does not.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Butero said:

Where is the gnostic connection?  I am not asking whether you think any of that is Biblical.  I just want to know how that is gnostic?

Ask Yowm about that connection.  

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Butero said:

I was just expanding the difference between foreknowledge and predestination.  They are not one and the same.  

But you treat them as one and the same and have been doing that with me for months.

[Justin Adams]

/watch?v=DT4FRJUyiNQ on youtube.

[warrior12]

33 minutes ago, Butero said:

They are two different things.  A prophet can have foreknowledge, but they didn't predestine for something to happen.  Only the creator can do that, as in the case of Judas Iscariot or the Apostle Paul, who was a chosen vessel.  

"Paul was a chosen vessel."  That says a lot and need to be contemplated on a bit.  Chosen is not an act of free will, is it or please explain if different. 

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

/watch?v=DT4FRJUyiNQ on youtube.

Justin,do you know video's only go in the video section?

If you want to can change it and post it in the right section,otherwise it most likely will be deleted.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

 Just because I believe there is such a thing as predestination and there is such a thing as foreknowledge, that doesn't mean I think they are the same thing.  They clearly are not.  

But what YOU believe in, isn't predestination;  it's pre-determination.   You believe that every actions or thought, right down  to what to have for breakfast has already been pre-determined by God.    That's not predestination.

Further, you HAVE made the argument that since everything is predetermined, then everything that happens is because God WANTS it to happen.  You reject the notion that God permits things to happen, because you argued vociferously against the matter of God having a permissive side to His will.  

Your arguments to me consistently were that since God knew what would happen and those things happened, it was God who caused them to happen and you have consistently applied to everything from murder, to abortion, to rape and even the Fall of Man in the Garden.   In past, you have never made any distinction between foreknowledge and pre-determination.

[Neighbor]

14 hours ago, SmoothRiverFlow said:

I have a relative who is interested in the Calvinistic point of view. From what I understand, this perspective tells us that God chooses who will or will not be saved. This would infer that we do not have freewill, because God gives you the faith of belief and not of ourselves. Can some people believe with all their heart that they are Christians and saved, even though God has not chosen them, according the the Calvinistic point of view?

Hi,

May I suggest that if you have your own interest that you will have to do your own prayer, study, and thinking, and prayer again. 

You might consider that what came to be called Calvinism by the followers of Arminuis after his death against the long standing view of the Christian Churches has basis in history longer than today's freewillers movements.

If interested you might start at the report(s) from the various groups that met at The Synod of Dort; here are a couple of links for starters- http://urclearning.org/wp-content/uploads/Dort.pdf and one with a point of view  https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/canons-dordt/

In addition as you read the emotional raging on by various posters including myself please consider that The list of Calvinists has been and is extensive: See  https://comingintheclouds.org/about-protestant/denominations/famous-calvinists/

 

And know that "The Doctrine of Grace" is T.U.L.I.P., that the prince of pastors Dr. Charles Haddon Spurgeon with all his famous sermons is Calvinism. 

R. C. Sproul is Calvinist; W. A. Criswell is Calvinism; John MacArthur Calvinist; James White Calvinist; Phil Johnson ( Pyromaniacs), Pastor Steven Kreloff is Calvinist, the theological staff at Zola Levitt Ministries are Calvinists ( Jeff Baker  Jeff Seif and others) as was Zola Levitt, the writers of famous Commentaries of the Bible Matthew Henry and John Gill  are all Calvinists.

I am a Calvinist, so even lowly helpers at local bodies of Christ Jesus are Calvinists.