"Tribulation Saints" - A Fly in the Pretrib Ointment

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

According to scripture, when does the new covenant end?  I'm not interested in conjecture, only Book, Chapter, and Verse.

Rev 20:14 when Death and Hades have been thrown into the Lake of Fire.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Last Daze]

On 6/10/2018 at 10:26 AM, Diaste said:

For one, the pretrib doctrine supposed the last week is equivalent to the wrath of God. This is unsupported and therefore a false premise. But it allows for a pretrib rapture as, "we are not appointed to wrath", which is true. Attached to the false equivalency of 70th=wrath then, Rapture=pretrib. Internal consistency, false conclusion. But again, this reasoning allows for the pretrib rapture.

Yes, I've noticed that as well.  Their whole narrative seems to hinge on their ability to conflate wrath and tribulation for the reason you state.  It's a linchpin that if one were willing to look at closely would cause the whole house of cards to start collapsing.

[Daniel 11:36]

 

"Yes, I've noticed that as well.  Their whole narrative seems to hinge on their ability to conflate wrath and tribulation for the reason you state.  It's a linchpin that if one were willing to look at closely would cause the whole house of cards to start collapsing"

 

The Lord's wrath and judgment period is easy to define .... the 70th week decreed

So tell us how the "whole house of cards" collapses

I think you have been deceived 

[Diaste]

7 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

 

The Lord's wrath and judgment period is easy to define .... the 70th week decreed

So tell us how the "whole house of cards" collapses

I think you have been deceived 

Please post scriptures that state explicitly the wrath of God is the same as the entire 70th week.

Something along the lines of, "..wrath will be poured out from the beginning of the week to the very end..."

Or, "the earth will endure my wrath for 7 years"

You get the idea.

Chanting '70th week decreed' incessantly is solganeering and not proof.

[Last Daze]

49 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

So tell us how the "whole house of cards" collapses

It shouldn't be much longer and you'll get to experience the how.  Words don't seem to do much good.

[Daniel 11:36]

If you cannot defend your ideas you should drop them .... neither do you know when the Lord will come .... no one does

It is your belief that is the "fly in the ointment" 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

If you cannot defend your ideas you should drop them .... neither do you know when the Lord will come .... no one does

It is your belief that is the "fly in the ointment" 

So how does an vast group escape 'the tribulation period' because they are 'not appointed to wrath' when another vast group, who are members of the first group, are 'appointed to wrath?

Please answer this.

 

[Brother Duke]

8 minutes ago, Diaste said:

So how does an vast group escape 'the tribulation period' because they are 'not appointed to wrath' when another vast group, who are members of the first group, are 'appointed to wrath?

Please answer this.

 

We do not know how big the pre-trib group is because it is not documented but we do know that those that die in the tribulation group that cannot be counted probably are in the billions.  Revelation documents over 200,000,000 that can be counted so those who die in the Great Tribulation must be a lot more.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Brother Duke

[Daniel 11:36]

"So how does an vast group escape 'the tribulation period' because they are 'not appointed to wrath' when another vast group, who are members of the first group, are 'appointed to wrath?

Please answer this"

 

Tell me who you think the second grouping is .... there will be no believers upon the earth except for the 144000 of Israel initially

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:05 AM, Last Daze said:

The only explanation that I've heard is that these "tribulation saints" are a kind of hybrid group all by themselves, a new classification of believers.  

Probably want to look up the word "hybrid"  because that word doesn't define what we believe about Tribulation believers. 

Tribulation saints are those who, while the Church was still in the earth, rejected the Gospel message, but receive the Gospel message and are born again during that time.  They are the martyrs of Rev. 7.   

That is not a new classification of believers.  There are consequences to rejecting the Gospel and while they are forgiven, they still incur those consequences.   It's no different than a serial killer getting saved in prison on death row.  He still faces the consequences of the past, but is not any less of a believer than we are. 

Quote

I'm told that they are new covenant believers and have the one Holy Spirit indwelling but somehow they are not a part of the one body of Christ.  Is this idea supported anywhere in scripture?  Did I miss something?

They are not part of the Church.  The Church will be in Heaven.  They are part of God's family and are His children and will have an inheritance just as we do.   The term "body of Christ"  needs to understood as the metaphor for the Church that Paul used to describe how believers relate to one another in the service of the Lord.