The Olivet Discourse

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Last Trump is seen here {Rev. 4:1 Jesus calls the Church home.....After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

We were give the whole history of the world in Leviticus 23, as God is want to do He gives us a pattern.

Spring Feasts: 1.) Feast of Passover {Jesus fulfilled this}....2.) Feast of Unleavened Bread {Jesus was without sin}....4.) Feast of First-fruits { Jesus was raised from the dead}.

The Harvest: {Church Age} 4.) The Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/The Harvest { The Church Harvests souls for the Master who will one day reap them}

Fall Feasts 5.) Feast of Trumpets { A Trumpet/Shofar was sounded to end the Harvest and sound the Notice that Atonement was nigh at hand. Thus the Church Age is ENDED or Jesus calls the Church home at the Last Trump which only means Harvest is ended.  And now Atonement for Israel is at hand. }

6.) Feast of Atonement { Israel must REPENT before the 70th week ends.

7. {Feast of Tabernacle { Tabernacle means to Dwell with God, and Jesus reigns from Jerusalem for 1000 years, so Israel TABERNACLES with God }

So Paul was indeed not speaking about a Trump of Revelation, he was speaking about the Trumpet voice of Jesus that ends the Harvest just like the Trump of the Feast. except this one will be the Last Trumpet Feast, from this point on Jesus will be present with the Church forevermore, and he will soon rule on earth from Jerusalem. 

The Rapture comes Pre 70th week. Those "RAPTURED" die, that is why it will be called an epidemic of sorts. The 6th Seal is opened at the same time as the first 5 Seals. 

The First 5 Seals just release the Anti-Christ to become the Beast over a 42 month period via 1.) Conquering  for 42 Months 2.) War (take away peace/ for 42 Months) 3.) Famine 4.) Death the Grave and Sickness. 5. Martyrs of the Saints.....all over a 42 Month Period, so they are opened, Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, THEN BOOM the 6th Seal is also opened, those first 5 Seals eed no time buffer to come to pass, they are 42 Months in coming to pass, so the First 5 Seals and the 6th Seal are all opened AT THE EXACT SAME TIME !! On day 1260. Thus the Dragon is cast out on day 1260. Thus the Dy o the Lord comes on day 1260.

{Rev. 4:1 Jesus calls the Church home}  NO no no!  Rev. 4:1 was God calling JOHN up to heaven -for the purpose of showing him future events - we WE would have his book to read. It has NOTHING to do with the rapture of the church. that theory is myth. The REAL rapture, Paul's rapture, will be a moment before the 6th seal. The 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age, and we are STILL WAITING for those martyrs to be complete. Then, and only then will Jesus come FOR His church. the moment after the rapture it will be Day of the Lord time.  Yes, His voice SOUNDED like a trumpet, but it was a voice, not a trumpet. 

Feast of Atonement { Israel must REPENT before the 70th week ends. The rapture may well come at the feast of trumpets, but this is before the 70th week BEGINS. 

The 6th Seal is opened at the same time as the first 5 Seals.  This is MYTH: the 5th seal is the martyrs of the church age: they are crying out for judgment, but are told judgment is not coming until the very last church age martyr. The pretrib rapture will be what stops the church age martyrs, so in short they are told they have to wait for the rapture of the church. THEN judgment will start. It starts at the 6th seal. As far as opening time, the 5th seal was opened in 32 AD but the 6th seal is still waiting.

The First 5 Seals just release the Anti-Christ to become the Beast over a 42 month period  MYTH! No one is allowed to pull verses out of their context. The context of the first seal is Jesus ascending and sending the Holy  Spirit down (Rev. chapter 5). It was 32 AD. Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. All these, including the 5th were opened around 32 AD.

Thus the Dragon is cast out on day 1260.   FINALLY you got something right; indeed Satan is cast down from the heavens at the midpoint of the week. 

Thus the Dy o the Lord comes on day 1260.  MYTH: the Day of the Lord comes at the 6th seal. The 70th week does not even begin until the 7th seal. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Why don’t you consider the 4 horsemen of Rev 6 to be the same as the 4 horsemen of Zechariah 6? 

Different horses for different events. Why would anyone consider them the same? 

[Spock]

7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Different horses for different events. Why would anyone consider them the same? 

Why not? There is much in the OT prophets that is = to account in Revelation. Why not this? 

[iamlamad]

14 minutes ago, Spock said:

Why not? There is much in the OT prophets that is = to account in Revelation. Why not this? 

Did John write that these horses were pulling chariots?

There is a difference between a horse with a rider and a horse pulling a chariot!

Edited June 24, 2019 by iamlamad

[Spock]

7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Did John write that these horses were pulling chariots?

There is a difference between a horse with a rider and a horse pulling a chariot!

So, are you saying no one was in those chariots riding out in Zechariah 6?  So you see a horse carrying a chariot with no rider (angel, whatever)?  

Is that logical to you?  You don’t think the horse needs someone to direct him where to go? 

[simplejeff]

56 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Different horses for different events. Why would anyone consider them the same? 

Usually because of tradition,  instead of what is actually written.

[iamlamad]

48 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Usually because of tradition,  instead of what is actually written.

Ha! Good point!

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

So, are you saying no one was in those chariots riding out in Zechariah 6?  So you see a horse carrying a chariot with no rider (angel, whatever)?  

Is that logical to you?  You don’t think the horse needs someone to direct him where to go? 

If you don't know the difference between someone RIDING a horse and a horse pulling a chariot, I wonder why you are here. 

[simplejeff]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Why not? There is much in the OT prophets that is = to account in Revelation. Why not this? 

Zechariah 1:8; 6:1-8 – The Four Horsemen
"Summary
The four "winds" or "spirits" of heaven descend to earth on chariots, each with different colored horses.
Analysis
The four horsemen of chapter 1, each on a horse of a different color, reappear riding chariots in chapter 6. They are reminiscent of the "four living creatures" in Ezekiel 1:5-12 (see also Ezekiel 14:21). The four creatures and the four horsemen appear together in Revelation 4:6b-8; 6:1-8, where each of the four living creatures summons one of the "four horsemen of the apocalypse," as we know them from numerous depictions in art and literature. As in Zechariah, the horses have different colors, but whereas in Zechariah their role is to "patrol" the four corners of the earth, the horsemen in Revelation bring judgment--capture, slaughter, economic hardship, and death.
Zechariah 1:8; 6:1-8

8In the night I saw a man riding on a red horse! He was standing among the myrtle trees in the glen; and behind him were red, sorrel, and white horses.
Eighth Vision: Four Chariots

6And again I looked up and saw four chariots coming out from between two mountains—mountains of bronze. 2The first chariot had red horses, the second chariot black horses, 3the third chariot white horses, and the fourth chariot dappled grey* horses. 4Then I said to the angel who talked with me, ‘What are these, my lord?’ 5The angel answered me, ‘These are the four winds* of heaven going out, after presenting themselves before the Lord of all the earth. 6The chariot with the black horses goes towards the north country, the white ones go towards the west country,* and the dappled ones go towards the south country.’ 7When the steeds came out, they were impatient to get off and patrol the earth. And he said, ‘Go, patrol the earth.’ So they patrolled the earth. 8Then he cried out to me, ‘Lo, those who go towards the north country have set my spirit at rest in the north country.’ "

 

 

https://www.enterthebible.org/Controls/feature/tool_etb_resource_display/resourcebox.aspx?selected_rid=340&original_id=56

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Why don’t you consider the 4 horsemen of Rev 6 to be the same as the 4 horsemen of Zechariah 6? 

Jesus/God used Old Testament Concepts to paint a picture of what the Revelation prophecies were about. For example: 

Daniel 5 is about King Belshazzar and Babylon being Judged because they profaned the Holy Cups from the Temple, likewise in Rev. 17 the Harlot is Judged in like manner, she profaned that which is Holy. The Woman in Rev. 12 is painted via a Gen. 37:9 verse. Out of 404 verses in Revelation 289 have Old Testament lingo/verbiage in them. So the book of Revelation designed so that God's people {us, those of Christ/Church} would understand this mysterious book, whilst the world would consider the BoR as hogwash. The very same reason Jesus spoke in parables. 

So the Four Horses are used in like manner as Zechariah, but with one caveat. This Babylon that is being overthrown, come out of, etc. etc. is the World under Satan's Leadership, whereas the one in Zechariah was the real Babylon, but if you notice, Satan stood to the right side of Joshua the High Priest whom God called to rebuild the Temple of the Lord God, he was there to resist him.....Zechariah 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

So he Four Horses with Chariots was showing how God hd freed Israel from their captives in Babylon {north countries} via sending the White Horse Chariots which stand for Conquering and the Black chariots of Famine. This is God saying he gave the victory to the Persians so they  could free his Holy Nation Israel. 

The Four Horses only represent that its God's "POWER" via the "Four Winds" which bring everything to pass. They understood Wind Power, and that it came from the North, South, East and West at various times. So God always used this to show His will being done, not just with Horses. Its like 7 eyes means all seeing or 7 spirits means omnipresent, well the Four Winds simply means that the Holy Spirit brings God's will to pass. 

Matthew 24:31
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Revelation 7:1
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back its four winds so that no wind would blow on land or sea or on any tree.

Jeremiah 49:36
I will bring the four winds against Elam from the four corners of the heavens, and I will scatter them to all these winds. There will not be a nation to which Elam's exiles will not go.

Ezekiel 37:9
Then He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and tell it that this is what the Lord GOD says: 'Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, so that they may live!'"

Daniel 7:2
Daniel declared: "In my vision in the night I looked, and suddenly the four winds of heaven were churning up the Great Sea.

Daniel 11:4
But as soon as he is established, his kingdom will be broken up and parceled out toward the four winds of heaven. It will not go to his descendants, nor will it have the authority with which he ruled, because his kingdom will be uprooted and given to others.

Zechariah 6:1
And again I lifted up my eyes and saw four chariots coming out from between two mountains--mountains of bronze.

Its simply God's Power being brought to pass via the Holy Spirit, that is in essence all it really means.

So Revelation chapter 6 is about God/Jesus RELEASING the Four Horses to go Forth. Its not the Same Events as Zechariah, that was about the Jews going back to their homeland and rebuilding the Temple of God. God showed them how He brought it to pass, likewise, God is allowing the Beast to come to power as a part of His Judgment on Mankind. Whenever we see Four Winds or Four Horses, its showing God's Power is at hand. 

Jesus uses the same Concept as Zechariah so we will understand God is bringing this to pass via His power. These Horses represent four specific things, a Conqueror, War Machine, Famine and Death/Sickness. But its not the same event, we are told who the players/peoples are in the Zechariah story. Joshua was the High Priest called by God to rebuild the Temple.