Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.
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Revelation Man, in Prophecy
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By omharris
This is a post I made to my blog site in 2015. It is still important and valid.
This phrase “shall wear out the saints,” came up in conversation recently. It begs explanation and answers; at least in my opinion.
Depending on what version of the Bible you are using, wear out is also translated as: exhaust, crush, hurt, and consume. It is the Chaldean word belâ, meaning: to afflict, and it is only used once in the Bible. The terms wear out and to afflict, say two entirely different things to me. One makes me think of the damage I used to do to my jeans during the summers as a child. We climbed and slid across everything we could. Mental pressure could certainly do that. To afflict on the other hand has a broad range of violence attached to it. I can remember the knuckle to the head in grade school, but it can also mean beheadings. Needs some clarity, doesn’t it?
I asked, when does this take place, and is it possible that we are in it now? Does it imply a continuous action, or it could be at a given moment? Is it suggesting common issues of life or a constant threat of death?
Allow me to apologize up front. This piece, as with most of my writings is long. There is a reason for that, and it comes out of conversations and sadly, disputes. The confrontations, when you follow the broken logic, could never end as every illogical argument seems to be thrown at you. Most of these arguments are easily resolved if the person speaking would merely read their bible, but they do not. They only read and hear what they want. That is why these become more of a visual conversation. One in which I could actually pull up concise information, such as quotes from Josephus, that clearly show why the answer is not always so black and white, or narrow-minded. On that note: there is only one way, and his name is Jesus.
The confrontations are not so much on my part, mainly because my memory is shot and I am not retaining scriptural references as I once could. I think that this is the Holy Spirit keeping me in check, because I know me, and I would shred these false teachers if given a chance. Since I cannot, I often defer and withdraw. I hate that, but if I look at this in terms of a warrior who has taken a hit to a dominant arm or hand. They might be rendered ineffective, but you will not remove the warrior mentality from them. That warrior mentality can become a burden at times, primarily because there is no need for a full-on clash. Sometimes all you need to do is reason with people.
I suppose I should tell you that I am still affected by learning disabilities and often find my mind disconnecting from the topic. This is particularly noticeable to me when I am under pressure. Thankfully, we have the Holy Spirit, and it stuns me the way he kicks in and gives me the words to say. I wish that happened every time.
One other thing; I have also come to realize that I do not have to be heard all the time. This takes a tremendous amount of pressure off me, as I have come to realize that God is in control, not me.
While we understand that Satan is the perpetual enemy of the believer, scripture tells us that there is a particular time range. Unfortunately, this wearing out of the Saints falls during is during a vast, nondescript period, the time of the fourth beast. The particular reference is found in Daniel’s book of prophecies.
“Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.” (Daniel 7:23-26 KJV)
I felt safe in calling the time of the fourth beast, vast and nondescript because we have a sharp clarity on the identity of the former three kingdoms. The last of the three was the Grecian Empire starting with Alexander and continuing through the Seleucid and Ptolemaic Empires. Although, we like to speculate that the fourth empire was the Roman Empire, which is not spelled out as the others were. The typical approach most use in determining what to call this empire, and therefore decide where the “beast” will come from is published in the book of Daniel, specifically:
Daniel 9:26 KJV And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
If you have followed me, long enough you understand that this has two fulfillments. One came under the rule of the Roman general Titus and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. However, there is another fulfillment coming in the last days.
Titus, the Roman general, is considered by many to be “the prince that shall come.” However, if you do your research, you find that the evidence leans toward a Middle Eastern people, not Roman.
Here is what the historian Josephus tells us in - The Wars of the Jews - Book 5 Chapter 13
“.yet did another plague seize upon those that were thus preserved; for there was found among the Syrian deserters a certain person who was caught gathering pieces of gold out of the excrements of the Jews' bellies; for the deserters used to swallow such pieces of gold, as we told you before, when they came out, and for these did the seditious search them all; for there was a great quantity of gold in the city, insomuch that as much was now sold [in the Roman camp] for twelve Attic [drams], as was sold before for twenty-five. But when this contrivance was discovered in one instance, the fame of it filled their several camps that the deserters came to them full of gold. So the multitude of the Arabians, with the Syrians, cut up those that came as supplicants, and searched their bellies. Nor does it seem to me that any misery befell the Jews that was more terrible than this, since in one night's time about two thousand of these deserters were thus dissected."
"Moreover, do the Arabians and Syrians now, first of all, begin to govern themselves as they please, and to indulge their appetites in a foreign war, and then, out of their barbarity in murdering men, and out of their hatred to the Jews, get it ascribed to the Romans?"
In The Wars of the Jews book 6, chapter 4, Josephus tells us that many considered the temple a citadel for the Jews and an inspiration to continue rebelling against the Roman occupation. The fire had already been ordered against the gates of the temple, but Titus argued and verbally prevailed in regards to saving the temple.
"But Titus said, that "although the Jews should get upon that holy house, and fight us thence, yet ought we not to revenge ourselves on things that are inanimate, instead of the men themselves;" and that he was not in any case for burning down so vast a work as that was, because this would be a mischief to the Romans themselves, as it would be an ornament to their government while it continued. So Fronto, and Alexander, and Cerealis grew bold upon that declaration, and agreed to the opinion of Titus. Then was this assembly dissolved, when Titus had given orders to the commanders that the rest of their forces should lie still; but that they should make use of such as were most courageous in this attack. So he commanded that the chosen men that were taken out of the cohorts should make their way through the ruins, and quench the fire."
"Titus's retiring, the seditious lay still for a little while, and then attacked the Romans again, when those that guarded the holy house fought with those that quenched the fire that was burning the inner [court of the] temple; but these Romans put the Jews to flight, and proceeded as far as the holy house itself. At which time one of the soldiers, without staying for any orders, and without any concern or dread upon him at so great an undertaking, and being hurried on by a certain divine fury, snatched somewhat out of the materials that were on fire, and being lifted up by another soldier, he set fire to a golden window, through which there was a passage to the rooms that were round about the holy house, on the north side of it. As the flames went upward, the Jews made a great clamor, such as so mighty an affliction required, and ran together to prevent it; and now they spared not their lives any longer, nor suffered anything to restrain their force, since that holy house was perishing, for whose sake it was that they kept such a guard about it."
Notice the reaction of Titus and ask yourself, does this look like someone bent on a complete destruction of the temple?
"And now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire, as he was resting himself in his tent after the last battle; whereupon he rose up in great haste, and, as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; after him followed all his commanders, and after them followed the several legions, in great astonishment; so there was a great clamor and tumult raised, as was natural upon the disorderly motion of so great an army. Then did Caesar, both by calling to the soldiers that were fighting, with a loud voice, and by giving a signal to them with his right hand, order them to quench the fire. But they did not hear what he said, though he spake so loud, having their ears already dimmed by a greater noise another way; nor did they attend to the signal he made with his hand neither, as still some of them were distracted with fighting, and others with passion. But as for the legions that came running thither, neither any persuasions nor any threatening could restrain their violence, but each one's own passion was his commander at this time;” I perceive this statement to be the most telling of them all, and it was said by Titus, the Roman general:
“Moreover, do the Arabians and Syrians now, first of all, begin to govern themselves as they please, and to indulge their appetites in a foreign war, and then, out of their barbarity in murdering men, and out of their hatred to the Jews, get it ascribed to the Romans?"
Titus’ fear was that the barbarity of these men would be ascribed to the Romans, and that is exactly what we do when we declare the fourth empire to be a revived Roman Empire. Do you not see that ascribing Rome to the fourth empire also takes our eyes off what could be the true evil of the last days, Islam?
In recent years, I held the position that “the saints” were only those that were martyred during the seven-year period of God’s wrath, that we so foolishly call the tribulation. I did the very thing I despise, spewing out concepts as fact without checking my Bible adequately. Paul used the term saints throughout his writings, and that tends to dispel the idea that the saints are exclusive to the years of wrath. Several examples are Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Ephesians 6:8, and numerable others.
The terminology saint immediately takes me to Revelation where we see things like the woman, drunken with the blood of the saints (Revelation 17:6). It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the largest implication here is the martyred saints.
However, there is something notable about John’s writings. He never used the term saints in speaking about the church outside of the Revelation; the majority of the time he calls them –little children and brethren. The feel is one of association and an understanding of the heart and character of God. Considering John’s beginnings in comparison to the end, it only makes sense that he would have God’s heart as he unfolds the Revelation, a time of nightmarish destruction and judgment. This time is not directed at “my little children.”
I realize that I initiated this conversation with a portion of Daniel, not John, yet they talk about the same thing. This demonstrates the leading and direction of the Holy Spirit. We cannot discount that John’s recollection of Daniel’s prophecies may have played a role in John’s terminology.
When you look at end times prophecy, there are only three people groups to consider: the Jews, the nations, and the church. While there can and will be some crossing over between the Jews and the church; at that point followers of Christ are considered a part of the church.
Some will say that God gave up on the Jews. I do not think so. He has engraved their names and faces on the palms of his hands. You do not give up something that precious, especially after showing that level of commitment. God has a plan to drive the heart of the Jew, his chosen, back to himself. Unfortunately, there is much pain and suffering involved with that journey.
In general, the Jews have rejected Jesus, the Messiah, and therefore subject themselves to the wrath that is coming.
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou had known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knew not the time of thy visitation. (Luke 19:41-44 KJV)
The rejection of God by Israel is a common theme. An example of this is seen in the selection of Saul as king.
And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. (1 Samuel 8:7 KJV)
The nations could also be referred to as the Gentiles. Daniel referred to them as the people of the prince that shall come. Jesus, talking about the days of vengeance said,
“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24 KJV)
The church is the entire collection of believers comprising the body of Christ.
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fullness of him that fills all in all. (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV)
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:15-18 KJV)
In general, the church is excluded from the wrath, or vengeance, that is coming upon the earth.
But God proves his love for us by this (James Moffatt), in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Romans 5:8-9 KJV)
“. you turned to God from idols, to serve a living and a real God and to wait for the coming of his Son from heaven — the Son whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who rescues us from the Wrath to come. (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 Moffatt NT)
The church likes to hold itself in exclusivity, thinking that we are protected from tribulation. Look, Jesus guaranteed us three things:
In this world, you will have tribulation. You will be hated by all men for my names’ sake. I will come again for you. Tribulation and Wrath/vengeance is two different things. Tribulation is non-stop and comes in many forms. It has nothing to do with your inability to buy a new propeller for the family ski boat. Get real, people in parts of the world where there is a heavy Muslim influence are being killed daily.
If you lived under a constant threat of death, do you think you would feel as though you are being worn down, absolutely?
Perhaps the Bible in Basic English translates it more appropriately. Daniel 7:25 (a) BBE “And he will say words against the Most High, attempting to put an end to the saints of the Most High;” It is clear that the intent is to kill the saints.
And he shall speak words against the Most High, and he shall wear out the saints of the Most High. And he intends to change times and law. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time. (Daniel 7:25 LITV)
Daniel 7:23 Declares what was to come, the fourth beast. If the fourth beast is Islam, then that was initiated over 600 years after Christ's death by Muhammad.
Born approximately in 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca,[9][10] Muhammad was orphaned at an early age; he was raised under the care of his paternal uncle Abu Talib. After his childhood, Muhammad primarily worked as a merchant.[11] Occasionally he would retreat to a cave in the mountains for several nights of seclusion and prayer; later, at age 40, he reported at this spot,[9][12] that he was visited by Gabriel and received his first revelation from God. Three years after this event Muhammad started preaching these revelations publicly, proclaiming that "God is One", that complete "surrender" (lit. islām) to Him is the only way (dīn)[n 3] acceptable to God, and that he was a prophet and messenger of God, similar to other Islamic prophets.[13][14][15] (From Wikipedia.)
Islam has operated under various caliphates since the death of Muhammad in 632 AD (BCE). While all of them caused the Middle Eastern world grief, the largest most powerful were the Ottoman Caliphate.
Ottoman Caliphate (1453/1517–1924)
At the end of October 1922, the Allies invited the nationalist and Ottoman governments to a conference at Lausanne, Switzerland, but Atatürk was determined that the nationalist government should be Turkey's sole representative. In November 1922, the Grand National Assembly separated the offices of sultan and caliph and abolished the former. The assembly further stated that the Ottoman regime had ceased to be the government of Turkey when the Allies seized the capital in 1920, in effect abolishing the Ottoman Empire. Excerpt from, the Ottomans.org
Is it possible that believers have been under attack for eighteen hundred years, without a doubt!
Pay attention to another aspect of Islam.
“The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Ismailia, Egypt by Hassan al-Banna in March 1928 as an Islamist religious, political, and social movement.[1][2] The group spread to other Muslim countries but has its largest, or one of its largest, organizations in Egypt, where for many years it has been the largest, best-organized, and most disciplined political opposition force,[3][4][5] despite a succession of government crackdowns in 1948, 1954, 1965 after plots, or alleged plots, of assassination and overthrow were uncovered. Following the 2011 Revolution the group was legalized,[5] and in April 2011 it launched a civic political party called the Freedom and Justice Party (Egypt) to contest elections.” (Wikipedia)
Notice that this is two years after the Caliphate was disbanded.
“Links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoirs from that period, confirm.[7] Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.[8]” (Wikipedia)
The point to this is that Islam has been a destructive thorn in the flesh of those who do not comply for over 1800 years. Have they been a global threat throughout their history, no, but it took a global response to subdue them in 1922. I think we can agree that they are global now, and a greater threat than ever before. Aside from that, their prime directive is to kill the people of the book, which would be the Jew and the Christian. Have you noticed that they are making a serious dent in their goals?
If you have watched the news the last couple of years, then you are aware of Christians that are being slaughtered in the mid-East and African nations. Perhaps you have also noticed that attacks against any group outside of Islam are fair game to them. Buddhists, Catholics, you name it. They even fight each other as though there is a competition to see who can follow the Qur’an most precisely. Unfortunately, for the outsider, while the Qur’an does have passages devoted to peace, they are superseded by newer passages that demand a strict and violent compliance.
I think it is evident that there is affliction directed at Christians in certain parts of the world. Not to be left out of this violence against Christians is China and North Korea. I suppose the question is, how long until this level of violence comes to the Americas and afflicts us as well?
Do not think that your non-belief will protect you. In general, Islam feels that any American is a Christ follower and worthy of death. Scripture tells me that you may have a chance to reject God and accept Allah as your God of choice, bowing before him in worship. Perhaps that will save your neck for the moment. I am aware that they cut a man’s head off anyway, possibly because they felt he was a coward with no backbone. I suspect it will not be as easy as that, and they may not have the time to await your decision. Of course, giving into this cuts you off from any hope of a relationship with God. In other words, there is no turning back from this decision.
If you do not know this Jesus Christ, you can. Ask him into your life, and turn yourself over to him and accept his forgiveness. Allow him to run it. You do not have to work for your salvation, as it is free and paid for, you merely have to receive this life and salvation. You will experience a peace that you have never known before and a promise that he will come for you so that you can live with him in glory.
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By Omegaman 3.0
I have, for the most part, not commented on many of the passages we have read in our Bible readings. Part of this is because I am lazy, but part of it is also, because we have the Worthy Christian Forums where discussion already goes on, and it is a place where Many views are represented.
When I set up the Bible 365 Club, one of the things I wanted to accomplish, was just to get people into God's word and read it, without the need for squabbling.
Here in Daniel 12, I don't think it is proper for me, to not draw attention to some connections to the New Testament. Reading the Bible for the sake of reading it, is not to get it's full benefit, we want also to understand what we are reading.
With that said, I am not attempting here, to use this as a soap box for my particular views, but I do think I have a responsibility to connect some of the dots, since some Bible 365 Club members may be encountering some verses and concepts for the first time.
By providing some Bible passages outside of our reading assignments or schedule, we can broaden our understanding a little, and begin to make some of the connections that we can examine, and hopefully the Holy Spirit will aid our understanding.
In Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, Jesus is speaking with His disciples about the time of the end. Those are good chapters to read to broaden our understanding about the things of the end. However, here we are in Daniel 12, so what are the connections I am alluding to?
Quoting from Matt 24:15 (NIV in this case) Jesus said to His disciples:
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—"
and in Mark 13:14 it reads:
“When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’a standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—
These passages make reference to a coming abomination, and desolation, and the Matthew one tells us that this is spoken of in Daniel. In Daniel 12:11, here is a connection:
11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days."
This is a perfect example of a principle of Bible study, comparing scripture with scripture. Here we have something in the Old Testament, that is difficult to understand, or at least might make us wonder. However, in the New Testament, we get some explanation and elaboration.
Now, if you read the New Testament passages that I mentioned in Matt, Mark and Luke, you might well have more questions than answers, but at least you will understand with a little more detail, something about Daniel 12.
Just to give you some more connections, more things to file in the back of you mind, allow me to point out some concepts or details to take note of, that will help you to make associations in other chapters of various books of the Bible.
Not going to get into it deeply here, but notice in Dan 12:11, not only the abomination of desolation, but, the specific 1290 days. Be mindful of that number, and of numbers that the Bible is going to bring up from time to time, in the context of the end times.
Examples, 1260 days, time, times, and half a time, 3 and a half, the week and the middle of the week.
Also of interest in this connection, is the concept of "great tribulation". Jesus uses that description in Matt 24:
21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
In this case, the NIV says great distress. The word distress is the Greek word "thlípsis". Many versions use the word "tribulation". It basically means pressure. To understand the word better, see http://biblehub.com/greek/2347.htm
I do, however, want to make another connection, so we can again, see that Jesus and the book of Daniel, are referring to the same thing. Again, Jesus said in Matt 24:21
"For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again."
Notice that in this distress or tribulation, is unique, not having an equal previously, not in the future. How does Daniel describe this? From 12:1:
“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then."
It is also note-worthy, that Michael is mentioned. You probably know, that Michael is an archangel. That ties in to this (probably) if you look at 1 Thess 4:16, and comparing that verse or passage, with the Matt 24 one.
I am not trying to send you down all sorts of side trails, but these things are all related. Going to stop at this point, and move along. Thanks for reading what I have said here, and especially for reading the Bible itself.
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By Revelation Man
So, looking forward, not from Johns perspective of the vision, why would the Euphrates need to be dried up in a modern world, where bridges exist and and the capability of crossing rivers with huge Armies was proven to be a somewhat easy chore in World War Two ? That is the logical question. And is the Army even an Army of men or is it an army of Angels/Saints ? Is this event symbolism of Israel/Judah being saved by Cyrus, the "anointed one" (Isaiah 45:1) a type of Christ/Messiah, via the drying up of the River Euphrates.
The deliverance from the Babylonian captivity as foreseen by Isaiah becomes in itself a prophetic picture of the deliverance of the spiritual Israel, God’s remnant people, with the conquering Cyrus (Christ) as the great Deliverer for whom they have waited. The designation of Cyrus as “my Anointed” in Isaiah 45:1 is significant for in the Hebrew it is “my Messiah” and the Greek form of course is “Christ”, both forms meaning “anointed”. This, with the designation ‘My Shepherd’ (48:28) also a messianic title, marks Cyrus as a type or symbol of Christ”. Isaiah 46 and 47 continues the prophecy of Cyrus (but also adds what can only be future events) but its all linked with the description of the destruction of Babylon. In Revelation 18, the pattern is repeated in almost identical fashion concerning end time spiritual Babylon.
As concerning the Destruction of Babylon, in Daniel 5, they all drank wine out of the vessels of the temple of the Lord and praised and worshiped all of their false gods therein. (Gold, silver, brass, wood, stone) And the same hour the "finger/hand of God" wrote their destruction, "Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin" meaning God has numbered thy Kingdom, and finished it, thy Kingdom has been weighed in the balances and found wanting, and thy Kingdom is laid waste and divided. So is Revelation 9 and the Drying up of the River Euphrates a symbolic gesture of a coming Salvation unto Israel/Judah ? A defeating of "Babylon" ? It would seem so. The "Thousand" mentioned in Rev. 9 is the Greek word MURIAS G3461 meaning (1) ten thousand (2) an innumerable multitude, an unlimited number (3) innumerable hosts ----From G3463; a ten thousand; by extension a "myriad" or indefinite number:—ten thousand.
The 200 Million mentioned in Revelation 9:16. This number is expressed in the Greek as 'two myriads of myriads' or in numeric form, "two 10,000 of 10,000". There is no Hundred in the verse anywhere. I am pretty sure this means Two Myriads of people. Is this an Army of men of War attacking Israel, or an Army of Men/Saints/Angels delivering Israel ? In Revelation 9 a horde of Demons is loosed from the bottomless pit when the Fifth Angel sounds the Fifth trumpet, and is given the key to the bottomless pit. (Rev 9:1) Their "Breastplates were of Iron" but the Army of the Myriad or 2 thousand thousand, has Breastplates of What ? {breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, } ( Two Myriads we must ask, could it be the Great Multitude and the 144,000 ? Just a thought. ) The breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue and sulfur yellow of the horsemen equate to the breastplate worn by the high priest. Exodus 28:15 You shall make the breastplate of judgment. Artistically woven according to the workmanship of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine wove, linen, you shall make it.
Only in this case all 200 million (or all of the Myriad or the innumerable number) are being presented as high priests. The power of these horsemen (fire, smoke and brimstone) comes from their mouths and their tails. { The mouth represents The Holy Spirit/Word of God, and the tails represent the venomous (9:19 their tails were like unto serpents) actions against mankind they have been given the power to bring forth.)
Rev. 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
So, these Myriads are placing plagues upon whom ? People that worshiped idols of gold, silver, brass, stone and wood (Just like Daniel 5 and the Judgment of Babylon) and they would not REPENT of their evil ways. This is Gods plagues, upon an evil mankind. The (200 Million ?) as they have been called are actually two Myriads of angels/men/saints or servants of God that are Judging mankind with plagues. Everyone has this backwards in my honest opinion. Where is this 200 Million pictured as coming against Israel ? The Kings of the East in Rev. 16 is a different event than the 200 million on Rev. 9, it is a Vial Judgment/event, not a Trumpet Judgment/event. I think it is the Kings of the East alright, but it is Persia ( Just like Daniel 5 ) Syria, Turkey and the hordes of Islamic Muslims, who might very well, not being a modern army, see the River Euphrates drying up, as a calling for them to attack Israel, these might actually travel across the River bed, and Turkey, who has a Dam that can block the water or Dry up the River might instigate this, more than likely it just dries up .
Lot of what ifs here, but the main thrust of the matter is, the Kings of the East and the Two Hundred Million (or Myriad and Myriad) are not the same event, at all. One is a Trumpet and the other is a Vial. The fall of Babylon was the signal for the deliverance of the Jewish remnant from their long and languishing exile under their Babylonian conquerors. Under the Persian rule, the command for their release was given, first by Cyrus the conqueror of Babylon and then by the great kings who succeeded him. Revelation again speaks of the "drying of the River of the Euphrates. Once again this needs to be connected with the deliverance of God’s remnant from the persecuting oppression of last day Babylonian overlords. (Last Beast System) The sixth Vial (Kings of the East coming against Israel) is immediately followed by the seventh which relates to the destruction of Babylon, and the following two chapters of Revelation 17 and 18 are a prophetic enlargement of what is stated in brief in chapter 16.
The drying up of Euphrates therefore must be taken in a prophetic sense, of the way being prepared for the final overthrow of the great Satanic oppression that has made the nations drunk with its wine. So attack and oppression is followed by deliverance. In Revelation 19 we see Christ, the KING of kings, riding forth with the armies (Saints and Angels) of heaven. They come to deliver God's remnant people (Israel and Christians who were left) and put an end to Babylon and the forces supporting Babylon.
Ancient Babylon a city "most proud," with "a golden cup…that made all the earth drunken…of her wine." Jeremiah 50:32; 51:7. Has a remarkable link to last day Babylon in Revelation 17-18. (False Religion and Gov. without God at its head) Yet she was to fall suddenly and be destroyed (Jeremiah 51:8). Then God would call Israel, saying, "My people, go ye out of the midst of her." Jeremiah 51:45. These exact words are repeated in the book of Revelation to Israel about the importance of coming out of modern Babylon (Revelation 17:4, 5; 18:2-8).
Jeremiah 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.
50:31 Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee.
51:7 Babylon [hath been] a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. 51:8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.
51:45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD.
Amazing !! This matches up with with God coming against Babylon the Great Harlot in 17 and with Babylon the Beast in Rev. 18. The Sixth trumpet begins with the mention of a voice coming from the golden altar before God. As this altar is also called the 'altar of incense', there is an implication that this 6th trumpet event occurs in answer to prayer, Rev 5:8. In the narrative of the 6th trumpet we have a clear historical reference back to when the Chaldeans crossed the Euphrates and defeated the house of Judah. Refer 2 Chronicles 36:15-20. In the book of Zephaniah, who lived in the days immediately prior to the Chaldean invasion the Day of the LORD is clearly described as a day of trouble for the land of Judah (note verses 1:4,7,10,12,14-15,18, 2:1-3). Other nations are later mentioned, but primary attention is given to the wrath directed upon Judah.
So, have I made a good case, am I crazy, or might I be on to something ? I been studying this a few weeks, this sprung up by accident from my studies on Babylon.
My first thread.........Have at it........God Bless.
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By Tanner Brody
"The king then gave orders, and they brought those men who had maliciously accused Daniel, and they cast them, their children and their wives into the lions’ den; and they had not reached the bottom of the den before the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones."
Sorry if this is a silly question (I'm a new Christian), but why slaughter the women and children? Are there elements of the bible that is not nessesarly condoned by God but just a recording of history?
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