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The context of 1 Thess 5:1


Heb 13:8

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10 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You are the on partaking in Astrology brother. 

 
Well look at that, Virgo is a constellation in the southern hemisphere. ?

Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

mazzaroth: perhaps a constellation
Original Word: מַזָּרוֹת
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: mazzaroth
Phonetic Spelling: (maz-zaw-raw')
Short Definition: constellation
 
 
It's time to wake up RM.
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18 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:
 
Well look at that, Virgo is a constellation in the southern hemisphere. ?

Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

mazzaroth: perhaps a constellation
Original Word: מַזָּרוֹת
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: mazzaroth
Phonetic Spelling: (maz-zaw-raw')
Short Definition: constellation
 
 
It's time to wake up RM.

You keep looking to Astrology and I will look to God, I have been in this venture well over 30 years, and I have plenty of wisdom from my studies. 

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Just now, Revelation Man said:

You keep looking to Astrology and I will look to God, I have been in this venture well over 30 years, and I have plenty of wisdom from my studies. 

Right, enough wisdom to know that Job is the Word of God?

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9 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Right, enough wisdom to know that Job is the Word of God?

Who cares that Job is in the word of God, Jesus also tells us there will be signs in the Heavens, but only things God speaks of like the Sun and moon not giving its lights and the Stars falling to Heaven. That of course is not the same thing as John's book of Revelation which uses Metaphors throughout via Jesus to give us an "ENCODED BOOK" and the only was to DECODE it is to use the Old Testament. Out of 404 verses in the book of Revelation it has 289 verses in which Old Testament Verbiage is used !!

Being able to understand this requires one to see the devils lies also. The CODE for the Rev. 12 Prophecy is found in Genesis 37:9. Once one understands who the Woman is (Israel) everything else falls into place. Then verses 6-17 becomes self evident. The Anti-Christ (led by the Dragon/Satan) chases Israel into the Wilderness/Petra where God (Eagles wings) protects her for 1260 days, but the Anti-Christ turns and goes after the REMNANT CHURCH to kill and behead them, they are the Martyrs under the alter in the 5th Seal. (Its not that difficult to understand, you jumped on some bandwagon that was not of God brother.)

Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great WONDER in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: (Genesis 37:9 shows this to be Israel) 

Rev. 15:1 And I saw another SIGN in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

The Greek word SEMEION is used in both instances for WONDER and for SIGN

So is the Rev. 15 event another SIGN in the Heavens ? Or is it just a Vision like the Rev. ch. 12 SIGN ? It shows the SEVEN LAST PLAGUES of God being readied to pour out the Wrath of God. Likewise the Rev. 12 SIGN being of the Sun, Moon and Stars comes from Genesis 37:9............

Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

All we have to do is use COMMON SENSE to understand the Sun, Moon and Stars are referencing Genesis 37:9, not an ACTUAL EVENT in the Heavens !! 

To top that off you are looking to Astrology via Jupiter and Virgo. For NO REASON, its all about Israel being the Women.

Just because the bible talks about the Sun, Moon and the Stars doesn't mean we should turn to Astrology. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Who cares that Job is in the word of God, Jesus also tells us there will be signs in the Heavens, but only things God speaks of like the Sun and moon not giving its lights and the Stars falling to Heaven. That of course is not the same thing as John's book of Revelation which uses Metaphors

Well, we should care about the constellations of the south, being that Jupiter was in the womb of Virgo (which is a constellation in the south) for 42 weeks with the moon at her feet and a crown of 12 stars at her head. 

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The CODE for the Rev. 12 Prophecy is found in Genesis 37:9. 

Rev 12 has nothing to do with Gen 37. Rev 12:6-17 is a description of the future 70th week, and the sign on 9/23/17 proves it.

Quote
All we have to do is use COMMON SENSE to understand the Sun, Moon and Stars are referencing Genesis 37;9, not an ACTUAL EVENT in the Heavens !! 

The twelve stars that were in constellation Leo represent either the twelve tribes of Israel or the twelve apostles.

Quote
T top that off you are looking to Astrology via Jupiter and Virgo.

And God doesn't need your permission to use His creation the way He wants in order to fulfill prophecy.

Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

Quote
Just because the bible talks about the Stars doesn't mean we should turn to Astrology. 

says the one who believes the book of revelation takes place in Genesis? i guess some won't take it to heart. ?

Rev 1:1-3 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Quote

Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great WONDER in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: (Genesis 37:9 shows this to be Israel) 

Rev. 15:1 And I saw another SIGN in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

The Greek word SEMEION is used in both instances for WONDER and for SIGN

So is the Rev. 15 event another SIGN in the Heavens ? Or is it just a Vision like Rev. the ch. 12 SIGN ?

And I suppose the scriptures below are metaphors also? Wake up! ?

Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Luke 21:25 "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.

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9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No it will be wiped out by he Anti-Christ......The Harlot = ALL FALSE RELIGION, she thus gets destroyed in Rev. 17:16. 

 

while I can see the remote possibility I do see that in the light of being reality....

 

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10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:
 
Well look at that, Virgo is a constellation in the southern hemisphere. ?

Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

mazzaroth: perhaps a constellation
Original Word: מַזָּרוֹת
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: mazzaroth
Phonetic Spelling: (maz-zaw-raw')
Short Definition: constellation
 
 
It's time to wake up RM.

How can we tell what the intent of the Author is in these verses: Rev. 12:1-5?  Perhaps the context would help.

This chapter is about God introducing John to the Dragon, and in particular what the dragon would be doing during the last half of the week. The dragon is mentioned (including pronouns) 32 times in this chapter. 

Since this chapter IS about the dragon, does it not make good sense that Jesus chose to show John what the dragon DID when He was born?  I submit those first 5 verses are exactly what they seem to be, and what a 5th grader would deduce when reading it for the first time - especially if they know how King Herod had mass killings of babies and children in an attempt to kill Jesus.  They are showing John what the dragon did when Jesus was a child: the dragon was behind King Herod.

Included in this is the sign of Virgo at the time of Jesus' birth.  In short, the first five verses were a history lesson for John. 

Is there some secondary meaning tied to the midpoint of the week? I will let the readers decide. 

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16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Well, we should care about the constellations of the south, being that Jupiter was in the womb of Virgo (which is a constellation in the south) for 42 weeks with the moon at her feet and a crown of 12 stars at her head. 

Quote

I will let you care about and delve into a religion of Satan, that's not my bag brother.

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rev 12 has nothing to do with Gen 37. Rev 12:6-17 is a description of the future 70th week, and the sign on 9/23/17 proves it.

Quote

Oh it doesn't ? LOL...........OK. 

Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great WONDER in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

A woman is CLOTHED in the Sun = (Jacob) the Moon = (Rachel) and the 12 Stars = (Joseph and his 11 Brothers)Which = ISRAEL. 

Genesis 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

So the Sun, the Moon and 12 Stars is ISRAEL.........The Woman (Israel) gives birth to the male child Jesus, whom the Dragon (Satan) tries to kill via King Herod's proclamation, the same Dragon that took 1/3 of the Stars (Angels) with him when he rebelled against God.

Rev. 12:1-5 is the CODE.........Rev. 12:6-17 is the FUTURE PROPHETIC EVENT................Of the 70th week. There was no sign, and the very supposed sign you cite as unique has happened 4 times in the last 1000 years and can be proven by TRUE ASTRONOMER using any computer. You fell for some shyster's propaganda I am afraid, and it was of astrology which compounds the mistake. Would you dabble with a Ouija board ? Of course not!

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

And God doesn't need your permission to use His creation the way He wants in order to fulfill prophecy.

Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

God doesn't use that which is of DARKNESS. The Code is in Genesis 37:9. You have been misled.

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

says the one who believes the book of revelation takes place in Genesis? i guess some won't take it to heart. ?

Rev 1:1-3 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

1.) Everything after Rev. 4:1 is FUTURE EVENTS...........Just after the Church Age from Rev. chapters 1-3 as we see clearly...........Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter

But of course everything IS NOT HEREAFTER that is in he book of Revelation from Rev. 4:1 on, but everything points to FUTURE EVENTS !! If you can understand this riddle then Rev. 12:1-5 will not confuse you. The Prophecy in Rev. ch. 12 is about an END TIME EVENT, about the Woman (Israel) Fleeing Judea from the Beast. But the CODE can be from any point in time, just as it was in verses 12:1-5. POINTED EXAMPLE is Rev. 17 and the 5 Kings that have Fallen, the ONE THAT IS (Rome) runs from Egypt to Rome, isn't that PAST EVENTS also Well of course it is, its part of the CODE pointing to who the Seven Headed Beast is, ONE of which (Anti-Christ) is YET TO COME !! 

The Lamb in Rev. ch. 5 is shown as slain, well that happened 2000 years ago, but its pointing toward Jesus OPENING THE SEALS during the 70th week. 

Rev. 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Daniel 5:3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.4 They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone. {{{ Mene, Mene, Tekel, the handwriting on the wall..........your kingdom is taken from you THIS NIGHT !! }}}

Of course every EVENT points towards the future, but God uses the Old Testament in the book of Revelation 289 times. The Rev. 13 Beast also has 7 Heads pointing to PAST KINGDOMS !!

2.) As per the Rev. 1:1-3 passage I will use the KJV which says SHORTLY, but that is irrelevant, it doesn't even mean SHORTLY, look to the ORIGINAL WRITINGS and guess what, they used ONE WORD in place of TWO WORDS !! 

Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev. 1:1 ¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491

1722 = the Greek word (EN) which means: #1722 ἐν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state).

5034 = the Greek word (TACHOS) which means : #5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickness, speed

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

So do you GET IT NOW Brother ? It doesn't mean that Jesus will COME SHORTLY at all !! It means that at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {EN} Jesus will COME QUICKLY, in HASTE, or SPEEDILY !! This is how an erroneous translationa can confuse us, if we let it.

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

And I suppose the scriptures below are metaphors also? Wake up! ?

Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

No, its just you confusing/conflating the two. No one says God doesn't use the Heavens for signs, but the largest part of that is the Stars being used for GUIDANCE (Think North Star) for Centuries. THAT IS A SIGN RIGHT ? Navigation by the stars !! Of course we use the Heavens to get our Calendar, and for TIME via the 24 hour orbit of the earth and sun via the earth spinning. But its not used for what you used it for, that is Astrology. 

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Luke 21:25 "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.

Again you are Conflating the two..........this is how Satan uses the word to confuses some people....Satan told Eve Thou shalt not SURELY DIE, when God told her they would die, thus that stood for Gods Holy Word. But Satan mixes in HALF TRUTHS !

Edited by Revelation Man
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5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Since this chapter IS about the dragon, does it not make good sense that Jesus chose to show John what the dragon DID when He was born?  I submit those first 5 verses are exactly what they seem to be, and what a 5th grader would deduce when reading it for the first time - especially if they know how King Herod had mass killings of babies and children in an attempt to kill Jesus.  They are showing John what the dragon did when Jesus was a child: the dragon was behind King Herod.

Included in this is the sign of Virgo at the time of Jesus' birth.  In short, the first five verses were a history lesson for John. 

Hello iam. I have a different interpretation if you will. Since John used the words "huios" and "teknon" to describe the child, the child therefore can only be the body of Christ being born through rapture, via John is connecting the head with the body Col 1:18. The word "teknon" is never used to describe Jesus Christ alone, it's always used in the context of either the body of Christ or a believer himself.

Rev 12:1-5 is not using singular entities, rather it's describing corporate entities in the end times. Rev 12:6-17 is an entire description of the 70th week of Daniel.

1. Israel - The Woman
2. The Body of Christ - The Child
3. The Anti-Christ System - The Dragon (Rev 13)

Quote

This is where people have a hard time interpreting Rev 12:1-5, is right here.

The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil. 

If these passages occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances below. I believe John is describing the child being born as the church (the body of Christ). 

Even Paul said he felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8 because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet, and as we can see in Rev 2:26-27, Rev 12:5 the church is being mentioned here as ruling with Christ with an iron scepter.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon) the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon) was snatched up to God and to his throne.

God Bless.

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5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I will let you care about and delve into a religion of Satan, that's not my bag brother.

?

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A woman is CLOTHED in he Sun = (Jacob) the Moon = (Rachel) and the 12 Stars = (Joseph and his 11 Brothers). 

RM, Rachel and Joseph are dead. This has nothing to do with people that existed 2000 years ago. By doing this you are placing a 2000 year gap in between Rev 12:5 and Rev 12:6. That's false. If I remember correctly you are pre-trib, and Rev 12:5 harpazo confirms that belief so why you are fighting this is bizarre.

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Rev. 12:1-5 is the CODE.........Rev. 12:6-17 is the FUTURE PROPHETIC EVENT

A 2000 year gap is not biblical RM.

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There was no sign, and the very supposed sign you cite as unique has happened 4 times in the last 1000 years and can be proven by TRUE ASTRONOMER using any computer.

4 times, wow. i'm surprised you didn't make it 5 or 6 times, lol. Rev 12:1-5 has only come to pass once on 9/23/17. Everything lining up plus Jupiter in the womb for 42 weeks has only occurred once.

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You fell for some shyster's propaganda I am afraid, and t was of astrology which compounds the mistake. Would you dabble with a Ouija board ? Of course not !!

I guess poo pooing on astronomy is the thing now. Blessed is the one who hears it and takes it to heart, Rev 1:3

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God doesn't use that which is of DARKNESS. The Code is in Genesis 37:9. You have been misled.

That's right, so he uses the sun, moon and stars which everyone can see instead of people who are dead and buried? ?

Quote
But of course everything IS NOT HEREAFTER that is in he book of Revelation from Rev. 4:1 on, but everything points to FUTURE EVENTS !! If you can understand this riddle then Rev. 12:1-5 will not confuse you. The Prophecy in Rev. ch. 12 is about an END TIME EVENT, about the Woman (Israel) Fleeing Judea from the Beast. But the CODE can be from any point in time, just as it was in verses 12:1-5. POINTED EXAMPLE is Rev. 17 and the 5 Kings that have Fallen, the ONE THAT IS (Rome) runs from Egypt to Rome, isn't that PAST EVENTS also Well of course it is, its part of the CODE pointing to who the Seven Headed Beast is, ONE of which (Anti-Christ) is YET TO COME !! 

Rev 4-5 are describing the scene in heaven at rapture. The entire chapter of Rev 12 is describing the 70th week. You sound silly putting a 2000 year gap in between verses. Where is your faith RM?

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So do you GET IT NOW Brother ? It doesn't mean that Jesus will COME SHORTLY at all !! It means that at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {EN} Jesus will COME QUICKLY, in HASTE, or SPEEDILY !! This is how an erroneous translation can confuse us, if we let it.

And I suppose you would the deny the blood moon tetrad falling on Jewish Holidays in 2014-15? It's all part of the secret code man, the aliens are here. To much HBO for you. ?

Quote
No, its just you confusing/conflating the two.No one says God doesn't use the Heavens for signs, but the largest part of that is the Stars being used for GUIDANCE (Think North Star) for Centuries. THAT IS A SIGN RIGHT ? Navigation by the stars !! Of course we use the Heavens t get our Calendar, and for TIME via the 24 hour orbit of the earth and sun via the earth spinning. But its not used for what you used it for, that is Astrology. 

Oh I see, so if God uses the stars to guide us closer to the rapture and the 70th week that's astrology? Really? 

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Again you are Conflating the two..........this is how Satan uses the word to confuses some people....Satan told Eve Thou shalt not SURELY DIE, when God told her they would die, thus that stood for Gods Holy Word. 

Are you born again RM, are you covered under the blood of Christ? God bless.

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