The timing of the 6th seal

[Heb 13:8]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not interested in relating Jewish tradition with the Way the Truth and the Life. If we were supposed to do that Jesus would have said so, like he mentioned looking to the prophet Daniel for understanding concerning the A of D. But he didn't and neither did the apostles.

Not interested in the blood moon tetrad landing on Jewish Holidays in 2014-15, or the 7 Feasts of the Lord? Diaste, there are no scriptures that are in reference to the church being here inside the 70th week.

That's why the gleanings are referred to as "the left behind".

Rev 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest (loipos) of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

loipos: the rest, the remaining
Original Word: λοιπός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: loipos
Phonetic Spelling: (loy-poy')
Short Definition: left, left behind, the remainder
Definition: left, left behind, the remainder, the rest, the others.

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Ok. I think you are reaching here and it's just too tedious and off topic to explore.

Reaching? No, I'm pointing out Greek words in Acts 1:2. When it says "raise" believe it, don't discard it.

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Got scripture to prove this? The citation above shows the church was born of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost.

Well, that's what tradition teaches, but how often has tradition been right?

There are 3 stages to the process of conception and birth..

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

Consider that Paul even felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8. Also consider the travail of the Lord's body below...

Isa 53:11 He shall see the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Rom 8:22-25 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

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Not the same context. Revelation is about the last days and that is the context through which we gain understanding. Enduring to the end doesn't mean catching the early flight.

No, enduring to the end is also in reference to the gleanings (trib saints) and martyrdom, dying for Christ under the 5th seal. God bless.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Heb 13:8

[Larry 2]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Israel that will be saved when"? I don't understand.

Good morning Diaste.

The context of Romans Chapter Eleven is of Israel future.

Rom 11:7 Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election (Gentiles & Jews in Christ?) hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they (Israel) should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their (Israel’s fall) fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them (Israel) to jealousy.

When does this begin to change?

Let’s finish with the Church and God’s elect first.

Rev 14:1  And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion (The heavenly Jerusalem - Heb 12:22), and with Him (Jesus) an hundred forty and four thousand (redeemed from the earth - Rev 14:3 and they are there with the elders and living ones), having His (Jesus) Father's name written in their foreheads (Rev 7:3). Notice in Rev 14:4, These (144,000 all of Israel) are the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

When will all Israel be saved? When God turns from the Laodicean condition the Church ends up as in Rev 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. During the millennium Israel will be the head of the nations, and there will be things occurring most have not thought of.

 Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Israel is the key witness to the nations in that time if I have it right. We may even realize what is known as the Great Commission of Mt 28:19.

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (not every creature we read of in Mar 16:15), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Isa 19:24  In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

Isa 19:25  Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

I hope I haven’t messed up your thinking. Bless you brother in Jesus’ name. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Larry 2

[Larry 2]

38 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Revelation 4 & 5 are there to establish the worthiness of the Lamb to open the seals, not provide some chronological continuation of the seven letters per se.  Otherwise, where was the Lamb when this question was asked?

• And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?”  And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.  Revelation 5:2

If the Lamb was around when that question was asked, then where was He?

I’m sorry if I’m sounding dense here, but the Day of the Lord has yet to come, Jesus has yet to open the seals, and the question of “Who is worthy to open the book” has not been asked at this point. When a throne is set in heaven for Jesus in Rev 4:2 all manner of His power is going to occur.

Please note one other thing about that vision viewpoint shown to John, is that once John is caught up into heaven in spirit on the Lord’s Day (Rev 4:1), these things we’re discussing are hereafter from that point.

This present age or time are the things which are, which John is told to write of in Rev 1:19.

Blessings in Christ Jesus. 

[Larry 2]

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

Angels are also dressed in white linen. White attire is not a sole distinguishing feature of the saints. 

This sort of requires that we ask what the word “Angel” is interpreted as doesn’t it?

Strong’s G32 - Angel

a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God.

a pastor:—angel, messenger.

Since you have strong ideas as to what angels are, and how they are dressed, who do you say that Jesus’ angel is? If you don’t know I’ll be glad to tell you in another reply.

Rev 15:6  And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Were these seven angels spiritual beings dressed in white?

Is God working with the Church, or angels here in the Revealing of Jesus in the book of Revelation?

Rev 19:8  And to her (Jesus’ bride) was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Concerning the four living ones of Rev 4:6, are you aware that at the beginning of the opening of the seals in Rev 6:1, Rev 6:3, Rev 6:5. & Rev 6:7 one of the living ones is working with Jesus when they say to come? Is it possible these same living ones are the seven angels.

Please allow me to ask one more question on this reply. If you were to find even one of our brethren in heaven with Jesus prior to the tribulation, would you be convinced that he had to be caught up to be there?

Thanks in Jesus’ name. 

[Diaste]

On 7/18/2018 at 4:22 PM, Larry 2 said:

This sort of requires that we ask what the word “Angel” is interpreted as doesn’t it?

Strong’s G32 - Angel

a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God.

a pastor:—angel, messenger.

Since you have strong ideas as to what angels are, and how they are dressed, who do you say that Jesus’ angel is? If you don’t know I’ll be glad to tell you in another reply.

Rev 15:6  And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Were these seven angels spiritual beings dressed in white?

Is God working with the Church, or angels here in the Revealing of Jesus in the book of Revelation?

Rev 19:8  And to her (Jesus’ bride) was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Concerning the four living ones of Rev 4:6, are you aware that at the beginning of the opening of the seals in Rev 6:1, Rev 6:3, Rev 6:5. & Rev 6:7 one of the living ones is working with Jesus when they say to come? Is it possible these same living ones are the seven angels.

Please allow me to ask one more question on this reply. If you were to find even one of our brethren in heaven with Jesus prior to the tribulation, would you be convinced that he had to be caught up to be there?

Thanks in Jesus’ name. 

The point is, believing every time we see pure, white, clean linen in scripture it must be translated saints is incorrect. It's like saying the only time the lawn is wet is because it just rained. There are other reason the lawn could be wet, just like there are others attired in pure, white, clean linen in scripture. 

Pure, white, clean linen is a badge of righteousness, not class, not a group identifier. The angels of God are righteous hence, they also wear clean white linen, therefore the armies of heaven that return with Jesus to fight at the end of thee age could indeed be angels and cannot be summarily judged to be the newly, or even past, translated believers.

[Diaste]

On 7/18/2018 at 11:44 AM, Heb 13:8 said:

Not interested in the blood moon tetrad landing on Jewish Holidays in 2014-15, or the 7 Feasts of the Lord? Diaste, there are no scriptures that are in reference to the church being here inside the 70th week.

That's why the gleanings are referred to as "the left behind".

Rev 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest (loipos) of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

loipos: the rest, the remaining
Original Word: λοιπός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: loipos
Phonetic Spelling: (loy-poy')
Short Definition: left, left behind, the remainder
Definition: left, left behind, the remainder, the rest, the others.

No of course not, the church isn't on earth during the 70th week. The contemporary church is holy, pure and righteous as it exists. It's only those others that will have to endure hardship, like the 100,000 a year that die for their faith in Jesus. Clearly they aren't worthy to be 'raptured' beforehand.

On 7/18/2018 at 11:44 AM, Heb 13:8 said:

Well, that's what tradition teaches, but how often has tradition been right?

Holy writ is tradition? That's off base.

On 7/18/2018 at 11:44 AM, Heb 13:8 said:

No, enduring to the end is also in reference to the gleanings (trib saints) and martyrdom, dying for Christ under the 5th seal. God bless.

And again we see the church is more holy and perfect than those who have to die in Christ during tribulation. So if the trib saints are pictured in scripture thus, 

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: “Amen! Praise and glory

and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!” 13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,

“they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence. 16‘Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst.

The sun will not beat down on them,’ nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water. ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

where is the 'church' shown like the above? I mean the church should have abundant praise above the trib saints as the church is walking the earth already pure and holy just like Jesus did. There must not be a single spot or blemish in the whole body. So where is the laudatory moment for purely righteous church taken off the earth by the millions before death?

[Last Daze]

[sarc]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

No of course not, the church isn't on earth during the 70th week. The contemporary church is holy, pure and righteous as it exists. It's only those others that will have to endure hardship, like the 100,000 a year that die for their faith in Jesus. Clearly they aren't worthy to be 'raptured' beforehand.

[/sarc]

Just to clarify.

[Larry 2]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Pure, white, clean linen is a badge of righteousness, not class, not a group identifier. The angels of God are righteous hence, they also wear clean white linen, therefore the armies of heaven that return with Jesus to fight at the end of thee age could indeed be angels and cannot be summarily judged to be the newly, or even past, translated believers.

Okay and thanks. 

[Heb 13:8]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

No of course not, the church isn't on earth during the 70th week.

I agree.

[Larry 2]

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

the church isn't on earth during the 70th week.

Hi Brother Diaste, just when do you suppose the 70th week of Daniel to be?  Psst please use scripture if you have it. I am aware there are some doctrines suggesting that the 70th week is supposed to occur during the Day of the Lord.  Thanks.