So Where Are We Now?

[RevelationWriter]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I agree because this is the time when nation rises against nation and kingdom against kingdom.  I guess you could have nations and kingdoms within 1/4 of the earth's land mass but then would that mean that every single person within those kingdoms and nations is killed?  Otherwise, what's the point of using the quantifier of 1/4?  It has to be a reference to people dying because dirt doesn't die.  So, essentially its either:

• 1/4 of the earth's population dies or
• everyone within an area the size of 1/4 of the earth's land mass dies.

The second one doesn't seem likely, especially since the man of sin is given authority over every nation, people, tribe and tongue.  The time of war, and his supernatural signs and wonders that end it, is what causes his rise to power.

- Remember, I'm talking about the time of The 4th Seal. Not, what the man of sin Will Do.

Satan the Dragon doesn't give his Throne in Pergmos-Turkey (Rev.2:13)  to the Beast till (Rev.13:2)

 

[RevelationWriter]

9 hours ago, douggg said:

I think we are right before the rise of the little horn person in the EU.

Then Gog/Magog.

Then the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.   Which the first seal is the Antichrist becoming leader of Israel.

Then the Antichrist betraying the Jews, to be revealed as the man of sin.

Then him being killed and brought back to life as the beast.

The the 42 months of the beast ~ the second half of the 7 years.

 

 

- So it's our God Who unleashes 'the Antichrist' on the world?

- There are two 7 yr periods named in The Revelation Of Jesus Christ. Can you quote them?

[warrior12]

45 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Exactly. Which is the very reason there are issues with the concept of "I believe...". Personal conviction flies in the face of fact and reality in nearly every case. As we look around the political scene in the USA we see this plague growing larger and more virulent almost daily.

When Jesus said, "... Be not afraid, only believe." He was speaking of a tangible power, spiritual in nature, with great effect in the physical realm; a real power with real cause and effect from a living source. Like this example:

"27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

 28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole."

This woman believed in those things which she heard about Jesus, and perhaps witnessed this power of life given to others. But it was the belief in the pre-existent reality of healing power that allowed the healing. Same with belief in the person of Jesus and His god nature. One cannot just decide to believe the Truth is a personal conviction, and that deep conviction is reality; that conviction in the truth must be born of tangible assets, like the reality of the salvation of the Lamb and not, the moon is made of green cheese.

Saying, "I believe the 1/4 of the earth is the Mideast." from Rev 6:8, is tantamount to believing Billy Pilgrim actually was captured by aliens and taken to Tralframadore.

I apologize if I come off a little passionate here, I just find the whole concept very daring, tragically so.

Righteous anger is not anger at all, but seeking to put what is right in its place.  

However, belief has to be formulated from the context that is read . Not every whistle is made the perfect from the same block, or so one of my co-workers use to tell me when comparing workmanship in our profession.    Meaning, not everyone would interpret scripture in the same light and while some things might be obvious or could be explained more easily,  what about the things that so many seem to disagree with, even though they are reading the same word, and  not newbies, but learned scholars too.

An example. About a week a two, a woman posted a topic of Divorce as she was reading it from the scripture . She was petrified to think that she could not marry again as she was only 32 yrs old.  The thread went on with some arguing for the literal translation that the scripture forbids it, while others made a case that she could indeed go ahead and marry again.  Now, how do we distinguish from what is written in the word as literal and the belief some held as not quite being so.  Sometimes words written eloquently, can persuade even the most dogmatic.  

Just trying to see the other side of the coin as in fair play Diaste and not to be argumentative and as for conversation. Hope you see it in that light.  

[RevelationWriter]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I get that but it wasn't the point I was trying to make. For quite some time I have heard so many say, "I believe..." used as evidence for the conclusion. As if to say, "I believe it means this to me, therefore it's truth."

As in this statement in the OP.

I'm not saying this is incorrect, but it cannot be correct just because of individual conviction. The above is 'believed' by the writer, truth or not, yet now it is true by belief, to this person, and perhaps many others as well.

I just think we should go through a more rigorous process to ascertain the truth in the Lord. For instance;

Rev 6

"7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

In this passage 'earth' is 'ge'. This is defined as,  the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region, depending on usage. The main idea of 'ge' is the physical earth, where we dwell, the physical realm before eternity is entered. 

In light of this the fourth part of the earth is 1/4 of the whole planet, meaning 1/4 of the population of the whole planet is killed by the above listed means. 

On a more temporal, hard fact level, since it's 1/4 of all the people on earth that suffer the death of Rev 6:7-8, and if there are 7 billion people on earth, that mean Rev 6:8 says 1.75 billion people will die. There simply are not that many people in the Mideast. Further Rev 6:7-8 does not confine to a region the cause and effects listed. 

So no matter the personal take, the hard evidence takes precedence.

That being said we are all free to believe as we wish, right or wrong.

I'm gonna keep my head down and go with what the Lord actually says.

- I believe ('a') or ('the') 1/4 Part Of The Earth' to be a certain Location of people. And not a percentage of the world.

[RevelationWriter]

- The 1st Seal Rider is Given A Crown. - Rev.6:2

- 'a vile person shall arise to whom they will Not Give The Honor Of Royalty,

but he shall come in peace a seize the kingdom by intrigue. - Dan 11:21

[douggg]

12 hours ago, RevelationWriter said:

- So it's our God Who unleashes 'the Antichrist' on the world? 

- There are two 7 yr periods named in The Revelation Of Jesus Christ. Can you quote them?

Nothing is allowed to happen, unless God allows it.      2Thessalonians2: 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Revelation 6-19 cover the 7 year 70th week.   In general, depending on which chapter(s), cover either the whole of the 70th week, or focus on the second half of the 70th week.

In Revelation 6, the six seals cover the 7 years, almost in full.    The sixth seal takes place with 45 days left in the 7 years.

In Revelation 11, the 1260 days, the first half.   The 42 months are ~the second half.    [ ~ is the tilde symbol, meaning approximately]

In Revelation 12, the 1260 days, the first half.   The time, times, half times, ~ the second half.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Exactly the first half

1260 days - Revelation 12:6, Revelation 11: 3

~ the second half

42 months - Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5

time, times, half time - Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As used within bible prophecy, the 1260 days; the 42 months; the time times half times  are not exact equivalents of each other, but close.    The bible uses the three different time expressions for that reason....to take into account certain short termed events * that take place on the timeline which keep them from being exact equivalents of each other.

Therefore, it is necessary to use the tilde symbol to show the 42 months and the time, times, half times represent ~ the second half.  i.e approximately the second half.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

* the 3 1/2 days the two witnesses lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem.

* the amount of earth time that passes as the war in (the second) heaven takes place.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

On 8/18/2018 at 7:02 AM, RevelationWriter said:

- Being a follower of Jesus The Christ most my life

I think I heard every possible 'end time prophecy' scenario for God's people.

- But now I'm thinking we could be in the time of The 4th Seal.

Which by the way we have nothing to fear from as

it's of 'the fourth part of the earth'. -  Rev.6:7,8 Greek.

And Hades following Death isn't for God's people.

I believe 'the fourth part of the earth' to be over in the middle east'.

 

We are AWAITING the Rapture which sets the wheels into motion, the 70th week begins. 

The First Seal is opened in the Middle of the 70th Week, so no Seals have been opened as of yet. The Anti-Christ is alive today.

[Revelation Man]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:57 AM, RevelationWriter said:

Remember, I'm talking about the time of The 4th Seal. Not, what the man of sin Will Do.

Satan the Dragon doesn't give his Throne in Pergmos-Turkey (Rev.2:13)  to the Beast till (Rev.13:2)

This is how we start down roads of deception, NOT CRACKING on you because I once believed likewise. But Pergamum in Turkey has nothing to do with Satan nor the Beast as per where they are from. Rome had a Provincial Capital in Pergamum. They thus built a Temple to Zeus there. Jesus said I know where you live, even where the THRONE OF Satan is. Well, Zeus eventually became Jupiter, before that it was a Babylonian god the Greeks calls Belios, they got it from the Babylonian god Bel, and the Babylonians got it from GUESS WHO !! That's right, the Canaanites god BA'AL, who is Satan himself. 

The Germans in the late 1800's did a dig/Tel in Pergamum, and they transferred the actual Throne of Satan to Berlin where it resides unto this day. Hitler had a replica made and gave many of his CRAZED SPEECHES from it in Nuremberg Germany, as a matter of fact the film of the Allies blowing up the NAZI Symbol, was at the Nuremberg Throne of Satan Replica. 

There are a lot of videos about this on Youtube, go there and type in "Throne of Satan CNN" and/or you can watch a 5 part series by Jonathan Cahn on the Throne of Satan, and you can even see the Real Throne of Satan. But it has absolutely nothing to do with where Satan or the Anti-Christ is from, he once had a THRONE BUILT UNTO HIM THERE, now its in Germany. 

So its kinda like an ole wives tale brother. 

On 8/19/2018 at 11:00 AM, RevelationWriter said:

- So it's our God Who unleashes 'the Antichrist' on the world?

 

Yes, Jesus opens the FIRST SEAL. Of course it is. 

 

On 8/19/2018 at 11:00 AM, RevelationWriter said:

 - There are two 7 yr periods named in The Revelation Of Jesus Christ. Can you quote them?

There is the Church Age.................then the 70th Week. Not two Seven Year Periods per se. 

 

On 8/19/2018 at 11:27 AM, RevelationWriter said:

The 1st Seal Rider is Given A Crown. - Rev.6:2

- 'a vile person shall arise to whom they will Not Give The Honor Of Royalty,

but he shall come in peace a seize the kingdom by intrigue. - Dan 11:21

The 1st Seal is the Anti-Christ Conquering to become the Beast.

The Vile Person was Antiochus Epiphanes, hes dead and gone brother.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

On 8/19/2018 at 10:08 AM, warrior12 said:

Righteous anger is not anger at all, but seeking to put what is right in its place.  

However, belief has to be formulated from the context that is read . Not every whistle is made the perfect from the same block, or so one of my co-workers use to tell me when comparing workmanship in our profession.    Meaning, not everyone would interpret scripture in the same light and while some things might be obvious or could be explained more easily,  what about the things that so many seem to disagree with, even though they are reading the same word, and  not newbies, but learned scholars too.

Lust and desire, I would suppose. What makes any of us see a thing a certain way? Personal perspective. We all carry about a world view gathered from our experience. That perspective overshadows everything we see and hear and the understanding of that external stimuli is filtered through perspective, and our desires, the lust for whatever we hold dear. 

For instance, Eve knew it was wrong to eat from the tree, she admitted as much and gave the reasons why it was taboo. What did she give in to? Lust and desire. She must have had the one and only worldview available at the time, God is all. Her personal needs and wants subverted that world view. She knew it was a desire to be wise, the proper perspective overcome in an instant, the context shattered, lust for that which she did not have won the day. It's no different now. We are all guilty of that at some point I imagine, but it's not the way that leads to life.

On 8/19/2018 at 10:08 AM, warrior12 said:

An example. About a week a two, a woman posted a topic of Divorce as she was reading it from the scripture . She was petrified to think that she could not marry again as she was only 32 yrs old.  The thread went on with some arguing for the literal translation that the scripture forbids it, while others made a case that she could indeed go ahead and marry again.  Now, how do we distinguish from what is written in the word as literal and the belief some held as not quite being so.  Sometimes words written eloquently, can persuade even the most dogmatic.  

Decisions such as this are quite personal and I certainly would not speak to anyone's motivations. Divorce is not banned in every case but I'm going to assume that in this case the act wasn't exactly sanctioned based on the fear of the person in question. So why is she looking for support? Is this motivated by the desire for safety in numbers? To quell the fear something is not as it should be? 

If it's the same Spirit that inspired all scripture, and it is, and we know that Spirit is the same from everlasting to everlasting, and we understand the word of scripture is always true, and we are all following that very same Spirit, we all should be thinking and believing and interpreting scripture the same. But, the will of mankind is powerful in the individual and the group, some are weaker and listen to others which have filtered the scripture though worldviews, perspectives and lust and desires. 

Belief is a powerful, intractable force when the will of a person is brought to bear in fulfilling the needs of the individual or group. One can convince themselves of anything given the right motivation. It would appear the person in question from the above needs to overcome a pricked conscience and is looking for the interpretation that fits an immediate need therefore the problem remains; personal needs, perspectives, desires and lust.

In my mind scripture is clear;

Go ahead and divorce. For infidelity the act is sanctioned. Anything less is not and if remarried, it's adultery. Nothing saying a person cannot get divorced and remarried; they will have to deal with the Lord at some point and the truth will be told.

On 8/19/2018 at 10:08 AM, warrior12 said:

Just trying to see the other side of the coin as in fair play Diaste and not to be argumentative and as for conversation. Hope you see it in that light.  

Understood and appreciated.

[RevelationWriter]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 1:55 PM, douggg said:

Nothing is allowed to happen, unless God allows it.      2Thessalonians2: 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Revelation 6-19 cover the 7 year 70th week.   In general, depending on which chapter(s), cover either the whole of the 70th week, or focus on the second half of the 70th week.

In Revelation 6, the six seals cover the 7 years, almost in full.    The sixth seal takes place with 45 days left in the 7 years.

In Revelation 11, the 1260 days, the first half.   The 42 months are ~the second half.    [ ~ is the tilde symbol, meaning approximately]

In Revelation 12, the 1260 days, the first half.   The time, times, half times, ~ the second half.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Exactly the first half

1260 days - Revelation 12:6, Revelation 11: 3

~ the second half

42 months - Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5

time, times, half time - Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As used within bible prophecy, the 1260 days; the 42 months; the time times half times  are not exact equivalents of each other, but close.    The bible uses the three different time expressions for that reason....to take into account certain short termed events * that take place on the timeline which keep them from being exact equivalents of each other.

Therefore, it is necessary to use the tilde symbol to show the 42 months and the time, times, half times represent ~ the second half.  i.e approximately the second half.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

* the 3 1/2 days the two witnesses lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem.

* the amount of earth time that passes as the war in (the second) heaven takes place.

 

 

- The first 3.5 Prophesying of God's Prophets is not of the whole world. They Prophesy, Die and are Resurrected in Jerusalem.

- The second 3.5 yr of Satan's beast it is of 'The Earth'.

- So the 7 years is not the timing of the whole 'prophecy' of The Revelation Of Jesus Christ.

- The 7 years does not start till Rev.11:3 

- Rev.9:12 - [One Woe Is Past], Two More Woes Are Coming...

- Rev.11:14 - Second Woe Is Past: So the 1st 3.5 yrs is at the end of The 2nd. Woe when God's 2 Prophets prophesy 3.5 yrs

- Rev.12:12 - The 3d Woe which Is of The 2nd 3.5 yrs. "he was given a mouth speaking great things & blasphemies & power was given him to work 42 months 3.5 yrs.

* God's two Prophets prophesy first 3.5 at the end of the Second Woe.

* Satan's beast speaks great things & blasphemies in the beginning of The Third Woe, The Second 3.5 yrs. 

 

- I will not be here to know it as I'm one of The Great Multitude who come out of The Great Tribulation without dying to marry The Lamb before God's Throne. - Rev.7:9