Salvation by Grace vs. Works

[Archangel Thyos]

On 9/27/2018 at 10:17 AM, LearningToLetGo said:

 

  

 I think this is where I get confused. Is accepting Jesus something that we can rightly do on our own or does Jesus first call to us, thus preparing our way to accept Him? Another way of asking this is do individuals first chose Jesus and thus receive the Grace of God, or does Jesus first chose individuals who then feel called to Jesus to receive the Grace of God?

The grace of God is what happens when god pulls his hand back from destroying you. If you are standing and talking, you are under grace.

[Concretecamper]

On 9/27/2018 at 12:41 AM, LearningToLetGo said:

I accept that man cannot earn God's salvation through works. Instead, man's salvation is a gift that God bestows upon those who accept His son Jesus as their Lord and Savior. But how is accepting Jesus not the ultimate "work?" 

I think you are contemplating a very important issue.  Do we have the responsibilty to respond to God's grace?  Trent summarizes it better than I could so I'll post some Trent teachings.

If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law,[110] without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

If anyone says that divine grace through Christ Jesus is given for this only, that man may be able more easily to live justly and to merit eternal life, as if by free will without grace he is able to do both, though with hardship and difficulty, let him be anathema.

If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost[111] and without His help, man can believe, hope, love or be repentant as he ought,[112] so that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema.

If anyone says that man’s free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God’s call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.

[Your closest friendnt]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:38 AM, Concretecamper said:

I think you are contemplating a very important issue.  Do we have the responsibilty to respond to God's grace?  Trent summarizes it better than I could so I'll post some Trent teachings.

If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law,[110] without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

If anyone says that divine grace through Christ Jesus is given for this only, that man may be able more easily to live justly and to merit eternal life, as if by free will without grace he is able to do both, though with hardship and difficulty, let him be anathema.

If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost[111] and without His help, man can believe, hope, love or be repentant as he ought,[112] so that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema.

If anyone says that man’s free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God’s call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.

This I don't understand...

What is the point of these messages...

If someone who believes, and by default has the gift of Eternal Life, 

And for some reason he tries to earn what he has, 

That does not mean that he does not have the gift..

He does by default, whether he knows it or not...

[Eyesonly]

Learningtoletgo

1) it is you who is to accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour. He has already chosen you from before your first breath. It is his gift to you and all you have to do is accept it.

2) I think you might be trying to find some worthiness within yourself as per your example of not being a good enough husband. I'm here to tell you are not worthy in any way of God's love and Grace. You never were and never will be. None of us are and that's why it's a Gift. 

Stop beating yourself up. God just wants you to accept his unconditional love. No strings attached. 

You are the adopted child of the King of Kings and heir to all that he has. How awesome is that.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Eyesonly

[Blood Bought 1953]

2 hours ago, Eyesonly said:

Learningtoletgo

1) it is you who is to accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour. He has already chosen you from before your first breath. It is his gift to you and all you have to do is accept it.

2) I think you might be trying to find some worthiness within yourself as per your example of not being a good enough husband. I'm here to tell you are not worthy in any way of God's love and Grace. You never were and never will be. None of us are and that's why it's a Gift. 

Stop beating yourself up. God just wants you to accept his unconditional love. No strings attached. 

You are the adopted child of the King of Kings and heir to all that he has. How awesome is that.

 

 

 

We can never be worthy , that is certain.The good news is that we are MADE worthy by the Blood Of the Lamb.Christ got my sin—-I got his righteousness.All I had to do was accept a free gift.Faith plus nothing.

[Guest 1sheep]

On 9/27/2018 at 12:41 AM, LearningToLetGo said:

I accept that man cannot earn God's salvation through works. Instead, man's salvation is a gift that God bestows upon those who accept His son Jesus as their Lord and Savior. But how is accepting Jesus not the ultimate "work?" 

Choosing to surrender to Christ is simple. Abiding in the faith is not easy. 

Christ never said it would be.

But he did say he would never leave you or forsake you. 

Christ said abide in me till the end. Walk with the faith of a child. 

Take his hand and go! 

What a beautiful thing we have in Jesus! 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

I dont think Jesus needs us to “accept Him”. He accepts US when we BELIEVE  Paul’s Gospel , given to him by Jesus . Acceptance might be construed as a work, but simple belief is in no way a work.

A mature Believer should surrender to God, but it is not mandatory for salvation.The walk Of faith is not easy, no doubt about that— but at least it is possible.Trying to obtain salvation by working for it, now that IS impossible!Surrendering to Grace is perhaps the best move.One would think that doing that would be easy.Human pride can get in the way of that most of the time.Some people reject the Grace of God because they are just positive that “ they” have to do something.They poison the Blood Of Christ and don’t even know it.Dangerous ground to be on.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Blood Bought 1953

[Guest Butero]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.  James 2:24

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.  James 2:26

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works:  shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:  the devils also believe, and tremble.  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?  James 2:17-20

I know there are some who attack the book of James because it contradicts their doctrine, but it is part of the Biblical canon.  

 

[Guest Butero]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 1:25 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I dont think Jesus needs us to “accept Him”. He accepts US when we BELIEVE  Paul’s Gospel , given to him by Jesus . Acceptance might be construed as a work, but simple belief is in no way a work.

A mature Believer should surrender to God, but it is not mandatory for salvation.The walk Of faith is not easy, no doubt about that— but at least it is possible.Trying to obtain salvation by working for it, now that IS impossible!Surrendering to Grace is perhaps the best move.One would think that doing that would be easy.Human pride can get in the way of that most of the time.Some people reject the Grace of God because they are just positive that “ they” have to do something.They poison the Blood Of Christ and don’t even know it.Dangerous ground to be on.

 

But what saith it?  The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:  that is, the word of faith, which we preach.  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.  Romans 10:8-10

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?  John 6:46

The Bible is in complete opposition to your teaching.  It is dangerous ground to be at odds with scripture.  

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking or of judgment and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries.  He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:  Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?  For we know him that hath said, vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord, And again, the Lord shall judge his people.  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.  Hebrews 10:26-31

I know that like with James, some would love to remove this passage from Hebrews from the Bible, but it is part of the canon too, and according to this passage, what is counting the blood of the covenant, WHEREWITH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, and unholy thing, and what is doing despite unto the Spirit of grace is not preaching that we must have works in addition to faith, but it is sinning willfully after we got saved.  The Bible is once again in direct opposition to your teachings.  

[Guest Butero]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:17 AM, LearningToLetGo said:

 

 

I think this is where I get confused. Is accepting Jesus something that we can rightly do on our own or does Jesus first call to us, thus preparing our way to accept Him? Another way of asking this is do individuals first chose Jesus and thus receive the Grace of God, or does Jesus first chose individuals who then feel called to Jesus to receive the Grace of God?

You got it.  If you accepted Jesus, it is because God the Father revealed his Son to you so that you could believe.  You were chosen to be among the elect.  Still, you had to make the decision to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.  Your faith led you to act upon it, which is a work.  If you read Hebrews chapter 11 and James chapter 2, you will see how faith and works go hand in hand.  They are not in opposition to each other as some falsely teach.  

Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jo-na:  for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.  Matthew 16:17

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in  spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes:  even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.  All things are delivered to me of my Father:  and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.  Luke 10:21,22