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When do Revelations seals open

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14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Like I said, your theory forces you to reverses John's order. The natural order, the way John wrote it, is that the man of sin arrives in Jerusalem first, then the two witnesses show up and begin their testimony. 

But you know you are right so what do I know? 

Luke 21:20-24 is chronological Iam. It's starring you in the face. The trampling is in the latter 3.5 years. The two witnesses are in the first 3.5 years and the three angels in Rev 14 are in the last 3.5 years.

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8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Luke 21:20-24 is chronological Iam. It's starring you in the face. The trampling is in the latter 3.5 years. The two witnesses are in the first 3.5 years and the three angels in Rev 14 are in the last 3.5 years.

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

I suspect that some of the above will be accomplished by those that do the trampling. And for sure they are in the second half of the week.   

This passage does not mention the two witnesses. But if Revelation tells us they are here, then they are here. Keep in mind, this is only a warning about those days. It is not those days playing out.  I believe many nations will send their armies to Israel, to wipe Israel off the map. At least, that is what they will be TOLD they are there for: But God will invite His guests to a feast and his guests will BECOME the feast - for the birds!  Verses 20-23 seem to be at the midpoint of the week. Verse 24 may be later in the week.  

You have given no proof at all - as usual.  if I have missed something, please tell it.

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8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Tradition tells you it's the birth of Christ, but tradition be wrong. Rev 12:5 is the birth of the church. We're in the end times, and many even deny the rapture sign. Very sad

Sorry, but it was Jesus HIMSELF that told me. I will take His word over yours any day of the week. 

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2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You have given no proof at all - as usual.  if I have missed something, please tell it.

Iam, if God uses the three angels in Rev 14 to spread the Gospel in the latter 3.5 years then wouldn't it make sense that He uses the two witnesses in the first 3.5 years?

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2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but it was Jesus HIMSELF that told me. I will take His word over yours any day of the week. 

Ok, well stop here.

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17 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Iam, if God uses the three angels in Rev 14 to spread the Gospel in the latter 3.5 years then wouldn't it make sense that He uses the two witnesses in the first 3.5 years?

We do not go by human reasoning when the scripture tells us. In the first half of the week, He will have 144,000 witnesses. He won't need two extra.  It is possible that these three angels will use PEOPLE to spread their message. Has God so far ever used an angel to preach? 

Edited by iamlamad

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3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

We do not go by human reasoning when the scripture tells us. In the first half of the week, He will have 144,000 witnesses. He won't need two extra.  It is possible that these three angels will use PEOPLE to spread their message. Has God so far every used an angel to preach? 

We'll stop here as well.

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On 10/4/2018 at 12:08 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

No, it's the body of Christ being caught up. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17, not 2000 yr ago.

I completely agree with you on this 13:8.  Although I do believe it is probably both:

1. Jesus

2. Body of Christ, the church

my proof: the Greek word HARPAZO is used....snatched, caught up. This is the verb used in 1 Thess 4 describing the rapture. This is very clear to me. To leave out the church is not good. 

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On 10/3/2018 at 9:32 PM, iamlamad said:

It is amazing to me when John looked into the throne room and Jesus was not there, that you could see all this - FAR more than John saw. 

Actually, there was 32 years out of eternities past to eternities future, that Jesus was NOT in the throne room, but on the earth or under the earth. John was seeing a vision of the throne room during that time when Jesus was not there.

As for the Holy Spirit, of course He is everywhere, but God had to show SOMETHING for John to see, for the bible tells us the Holy Spirit was sent down and here we see from WHERE He was sent down. But the fact remains, He was still there in chapter 4, but sent down in chapter 5.

Absolutely LA,

while I am still pondering your interpretation of the identity of the first white horse rider (gospel going out to the world?) this part I believe you may be correct.

Clearly no one was worthy YET because JC had not yet died and risen from the dead. That had to happen first before he could be found worthy. Thus, only God the Father was sitting at the throne with no mention of JC being present. 

So then in chapter 5 the angel reminds John that NOW someone is worthy to open the scroll and break the seals......Jesus has returned, the conqueror. And notice the first thing JC does when he arrives on the scene....HE PICKS UP THE SCROLL AND BREAKS THE SEALS !  Right then, not 2000 years later folks, right then, I assume around 30 AD (assuming that is when he died). 

This corresponds I believe with Zechariah 6 when we read about the four horses going forth SENT FROM God; same colors too I believe. 

Let me copy and paste chapter 5 of Rev just so people have it in front of them to refer to. Notice, now they are singing a NEW SONG, WORTHY IS THE LAMB WHO CAN OPEN THE SEALS......! 

1Then I saw a scroll in the right hand of the One seated on the throne. It had writing on both sides and was sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”

3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or look inside it. 4And I began to weep bitterly, because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or look inside it.

The Lamb is Worthy

5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has triumphed to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

6Then I saw a Lamb who appeared to have been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the seven Spiritsa of God sent out into all the earth. 7And He came and took the scroll from the right hand of the One seated on the throne.

8When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp, and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song: 

“Worthy are You to take the scroll and open its seals, 

because You were slain, 

and by Your blood You purchased for God 

those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

10You have made them into a kingdom, 

priests to serve our God, 

and they will reignb upon the earth.”

The Lamb Exalted

11Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels and living creatures and elders encircling the throne, and their number was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands. 12In a loud voice they said: 

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, 

to receive power and riches

and wisdom and strength

and honor and glory and blessing!”

13And I heard every creature in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying: 

“To Him who sits on the throne, 

and to the Lamb,

be praise and honor and glory and power 

forever and ever!”

14And the four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.c 

I believe if you add 2000 years and believe this is when he is opening them, you really have no evidence, just your conjecture, and perhaps are doing so because you want to satisfy your agenda or you want to satisfy an agenda given to you from someone you want to believe...some minister or teacher you respect. 

My advice is simply this.....flush your mind out of any preconceived notions, and pray to God to illuminate you on this (timing of the seals) and then read, reread, and ponder what Rev 4 and 5 are saying, slowly and methodically. 

Let me know....

spock

 

Edited by Spock

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3 hours ago, Spock said:

 

Hi spock,

Nice to be up at the same time, bro.

Now if the seals were opened 2000 years ago then we would see the Lord bringing judgments upon the rebellious. And we know that has not happened.  Let`s read the previous verse to ch. 4.

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

When Jesus returned the conqueror God`s word tells that He sat down at the right hand of the Father.

`...when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. `(Heb. 1: 3) 

What we are seeing in Rev. 4 is the Father establishing His Son`s own throne. The details of that throne show that it is the son`s. I will give details if you want them.

regards, Marilyn.

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