Creation

[David1701]

6 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

The description of the woman made from the man’s “rib” has led to the mistaken conclusion that women are inferior to men because they originate from one small part of the male anatomy. Yet the Hebrew word צלע (tsela) does not mean “rib,” but rather “side.” According to Exodus, for example, God told Moses to make four gold rings for the Ark of the Covenant, “two rings on one side (צלע; tsela) of it, and two rings on the other side of it” (Exod 25:12). Likewise, when God takes one tsela from the man to make the woman, Eve comes from an entire side of Adam’s body, not a single rib.

Adam’s own words clarify that Eve comes from one of his sides when he declares of his wife, “Finally, this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh!” (Gen 2:23). Had Eve been created from the man’s rib alone, Adam would only have been able to say that she was “bone of his bone.” As Adam’s bone and flesh, the woman is the man’s “other half.” When man and woman cleave to one another and return to being “one flesh” (2:24), the two equal halves of humanity are brought back together.

https://weekly.israelbiblecenter.com/eve-come-adams-rib/

This analysis does take context into account.

I've already proved that the main meaning of the Hebrew word is "rib" (although it can also mean "side"), so I'm not going to entertain any more unbelieving Jewish nonsense.

[The Barbarian]

10 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

Likewise, when God takes one tsela from the man to make the woman, Eve comes from an entire side of Adam’s body, not a single rib.

Thanks for that.    Enlightening.

 

[The Barbarian]

3 hours ago, dad2 said:

I have Jesus, and the Spirit of God. I do not see that in your attacks on creation and His word.

I see that you say so.  But your behavior is more persuasive.    You are not God, so my critique of your new doctrines is not an attack on His creation or His word.

 

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, one.opinion said:

This analysis does take context into account.

I think the explanation of Dr. Schaser's translation can be seen when he writes, "The description of the woman made from the man’s “rib” has led to the mistaken conclusion that women are inferior to men because they originate from one small part of the male anatomy."  He is describing that his idea is meant to spare feelings.  I don't think women feel inferior.  In the modern times where men and women are supposed to be considered absolute equals, he prefers 'side' over 'rib.'  

The only Bible translation I could find that uses the word 'side' is the NET bible, in a very modern translation, and it's About page states that it offers nontraditional renderings.  I understand you need to alter 16% of the Bible to be able to issue a copyright. 

The 37 translations below, including literal translations and the Septuagint, use the word 'rib.' 

New International Version
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
Berean Study Bible
New American Standard Bible
NASB 1995
NASB 1977
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Contemporary English Version
Good News Translation
GOD'S WORD® Translation
International Standard Version
King James Bible
New King James Version
King James 2000 Bible
New Heart English Bible
World English Bible
American King James Version
American Standard Version
A Faithful Version
Darby Bible Translation
English Revised Version
Webster's Bible Translation
Geneva Bible of 1587
Bishops' Bible of 1568
Coverdale Bible of 1535
Tyndale Bible of 1526
Literal Standard Version
Young's Literal Translation
Smith's Literal Translation
Douay-Rheims Bible
Catholic Public Domain Version
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
Lamsa Bible
JPS Tanakh 1917
Brenton Septuagint Translation

 

[dad2]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

I see that you say so.  But your behavior is more persuasive.    You are not God, so my critique of your new doctrines is not an attack on His creation or His word.

 

Belief in creation is as old as the bible and is confirmed cover to cover.  Masking unbelief and rejection of Scripture as interpretation is not longer an option.

[one.opinion]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

I've already proved that the main meaning of the Hebrew word is "rib" (although it can also mean "side"), so I'm not going to entertain any more unbelieving Jewish nonsense.

Ok fine, if the scholarship of experts isn’t enough for you, here is another commentary from a Christian scholar.

First of all, about the word sometimes translated as “rib.”  The Hebrew word is sela. It means, literally, “side” rather than “rib.” 

https://evidenceforchristianity.org/what-is-the-correct-meaning-of-the-word-normally-translated-as-adams-rib-in-the-creation-account/

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, dad2 said:

Belief in creation is as old as the bible and is confirmed cover to cover. 

It's good you at least admit that much.   But the problem is, you don't approve of the way He did it.

2 hours ago, dad2 said:

Masking unbelief and rejection of Scripture as interpretation is not longer an option.

I think you do believe in God.   You just don't believe in creation His way.

 

[dad2]

35 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

It's good you at least admit that much.   But the problem is, you don't approve of the way He did it.

I think you do believe in God.   You just don't believe in creation His way.

 

I would say that it is akin to blasphemy to deny that He is the creator just as the bible says. To wave off the first woman as unreal and 'figurative' is unbelief. No one in the bible did not believe in the first man and woman created by God. There is no possible fit of the bible with evolution (the theory that life is a result of evolving) or the Big Bang. Is there some other teaching in the bible that you really disagree with that would lead you to dishonour Scripture like this. (example, Sodom and Gomorrah)

[Sparks]

9 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Ok fine, if the scholarship of experts isn’t enough for you, here is another commentary from a Christian scholar.

Do you understand the significance and age of the Septuagint translation? 

The Septuagint is an extremely faithful translation of the from Hebrew Bible because it was written by the Jews themselves, translated to Greek in the 3rd century BCE (200-300 BC).   The region was perfectly fluent in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic at the time, and this Greek translation said 'rib.'  Not side.  

It might interest you to know that Jews, over the centuries, forgot how to read Hebrew, especially after the scribes and priests bailed from the Second Temple in 70 AD, and they used this faithful translation to re-learn how to read their original Hebrew Bible.  They could read the more common Greek and used it as a reference.  In fact, the New Testament was written in Greek.

Septuagint means 70 in Latin, because there were 70 translators who worked on it from that era.  Why second guess with some modern scholars?

[David1701]

11 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Ok fine, if the scholarship of experts isn’t enough for you, here is another commentary from a Christian scholar.

First of all, about the word sometimes translated as “rib.”  The Hebrew word is sela. It means, literally, “side” rather than “rib.” 

https://evidenceforchristianity.org/what-is-the-correct-meaning-of-the-word-normally-translated-as-adams-rib-in-the-creation-account/

Why do you persist with this rubbish, when I've already proved that the word often means "rib".  I gave you the work of three Hebrew scholars (Brown, Driver and Briggs).  Here it is again, with corroboration.

You provided unbelieving, Jewish opinion, not Christian scholarship, in your earlier posts.

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon

- Original: צלעה צלע
- Transliteration: Tsela`
- Phonetic: tsay-law'
- Definition:  
1.  side, rib, beam    
--a.  rib (of man)   
--b.  rib (of hill, ridge, etc)   
--c.  side-chambers or cells (of temple structure)   
--d.  rib, plank, board (of cedar or fir)   
--e.  leaves (of door)   
--f.  side (of ark) 

The first two meanings are kinds of rib.

Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Hebrew Dictionary

H6763 צֵּלָע צַּלעָה tsela` (tsay-law') (or (feminine) tsalTah {tsal-aw'}) n-f.
1. a rib (as curved), literally (of the body) or figuratively (of a door, i.e. leaf)
2. (hence) a side, literally (of a person) or figuratively (of an object or the sky, i.e. quarter)
3. architecturally, a (especially floor or ceiling) timber or plank (single or collective, i.e. a flooring)

Note that "rib" comes first and that it is from this that "side" is derived (when referring to people), not vice versa.

It means something curved, so, what in the side is curved?  That would be ribs.

Why do you think that the Hebrew experts, who translated 50+ English Bibles, all chose "ribs", rather than "side"?  They all had access to Hebrew lexicons and all knew the language.

The NET translation is the odd man out, but it is a hyper-critical translation, with many strange translation choices and textual choices.

Edited November 7, 2021 by David1701