"My yoke is easy my burden is light

[Willa]

On 11/14/2018 at 5:18 AM, 1sheep said:

Hebrews 4: 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 

, 10 for whoever hasentered God's rest has also ^urested from his works as God did from his.

 

So few people seem to understand this.  We must cease from our own works and rest in the completed work of the cross!  When will we understand?  Only when the Holy Spirit enlightens us.

[Regulus]

On 11/14/2018 at 5:18 AM, Guest 1sheep said:

 

Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and areheavy laden, and I will give you rest. 

29Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 

30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

 

 

 

 Christ is our rest. We are saved by faith alone  in grace alone in Christ alone. 

Faith plus NOTHING. 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

Hebrews 4: 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 

, 10 for whoever hasentered God's rest has also ^urested from his works as God did from his.

11 Let us therefore strive to enter thatrest, so ^vthat no one may fall by the samesort of disobedience. 12 For ^wthe word ofGod is living and ^xactive, ^ysharper thanany ^ztwo-edged sword, piercing to thedivision of soul and of spirit, of joints andof marrow, and ^adiscerning the thoughtsand intentions of the heart. 13 And ^bnocreature is hidden from his sight, but allare ^cnaked and exposed to the eyes of himto whom we must give account.

 

Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

 

Romans 16:17-18 

¹⁷ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

¹⁸ For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Hello everyone. I am new here so I need a little clarification on what is being addressed. What specifically are these texts being used to support?

[BibleGuy]

On 11/14/2018 at 5:18 AM, Guest 1sheep said:

 

Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and areheavy laden, and I will give you rest. 

29Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 

30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

 

 

 

 Christ is our rest. We are saved by faith alone  in grace alone in Christ alone. 

Faith plus NOTHING. 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

Hebrews 4: 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 

, 10 for whoever hasentered God's rest has also ^urested from his works as God did from his.

11 Let us therefore strive to enter thatrest, so ^vthat no one may fall by the samesort of disobedience. 12 For ^wthe word ofGod is living and ^xactive, ^ysharper thanany ^ztwo-edged sword, piercing to thedivision of soul and of spirit, of joints andof marrow, and ^adiscerning the thoughtsand intentions of the heart. 13 And ^bnocreature is hidden from his sight, but allare ^cnaked and exposed to the eyes of himto whom we must give account.

 

Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

 

Romans 16:17-18 

¹⁷ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

¹⁸ For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Friendly Greetings!

I noticed your statement: "Faith plus NOTHING."

However, Jas.2:24 rather clearly disconfirms that viewpoint.

Agreed?

blessings...

 

 

 

[omega2xx]

On 11/6/2019 at 3:25 PM, BibleGuy said:

Friendly Greetings!

I noticed your statement: "Faith plus NOTHING."

However, Jas.2:24 rather clearly disconfirms that viewpoint.

Agreed?

blessings...

Not really.  We are saved by grace alone(Eph 2:8-9).  Faith come only after we are saved.  In fact there are several verses that say we play no part in our salvation.

Phil 1:6 - If God begins it, we didn't.

John John 6:37 - If God gives us to Jesus, we didn't go to Him.

I Pet 1:3 - If God caused us o be born again, we played no part in it.

In fact God used the allegory of birth to show us that just as we  played no part in our natural birth, we also  played no part in our spiritual birth.

For those who believe we can lose our salvation, the new birth allegory also teaches us, just as  one can't be unborn physically, we can't be unborn spiritually.

Love, peace and joy

 

On 11/6/2019 at 3:25 PM, BibleGuy said:

 

 

 

[BibleGuy]

2 hours ago, omega2xx said:

 

 

Hi there!

You wrote: "Not really. "

But James 2:24 plainly states NOT FAITH ALONE....so I think you need to revise your position on this one.....

"We are saved by grace alone(Eph 2:8-9)"

Ok....but grace extends to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6)...and humble people obey TORAH (Ex.33:13;Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3).

So, TORAH-OBEDIENCE and SALVATION BY GRACE go together....

"Faith come only after we are saved. "

Ok....but faith is of TORAH (Mt.23:23;Ps.119:30,86,138;Dt.32:20)....so they go TOGETHER.....

"In fact there are several verses that say we play no part in our salvation."

Ok...but saved people obey TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10)...they go TOGETHER...

In fact, Jesus said Torah-obedience is a sufficient condition of eternal life (Lk.10:25-28).

"Phil 1:6 - If God begins it, we didn't."

Fine....but God also requires Torah too (Dt.1:3;5:27-33;etc.)...they go TOGETHER....

"John John 6:37 - If God gives us to Jesus, we didn't go to Him."

Fine....but those in Christ obey Christ's teachings....and those teachings require TORAH (Mt.4:4;5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28)...they go TOGETHER.....

"I Pet 1:3 - If God caused us o be born again, we played no part in it."

Ok....but that God also requires that we obey TORAH (Dt.1:3;5:27-33;etc...)   

They go TOGETHER....

"Love, peace and joy"

And Love requires TORAH (Dt.6:5,25;1Jn.5:3).

Peace extends to those who love Torah (Ps.119:165).

We REJOICE in the Lord (Php.4:4) who requires TORAH (Mt.5:19).

blessings....

 

 

[omega2xx]

50 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

Hi there!

You wrote: "Not really. "

But James 2:24 plainly states NOT FAITH ALONE....so I think you need to revise your position on this one.....

"We are saved by grace alone(Eph 2:8-9)"

Ok....but grace extends to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6)...and humble people obey TORAH

Do you really think you keep the law perfectly?  If you do, that is a sign of pride.  Read Rom chapter 7, especially v18.  Also this chapter tells us that he law actually causes us to sin(Rom 7:7-8).

(Ex.33:13;Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3).

Num 12:3 - But Moses struck the rock twice and was not allowed to enter the promised land.

So, TORAH-OBEDIENCE and SALVATION BY GRACE go together...

No.  Obedience to the law is NEVER required for salvation. .Grace ALWAYS  precedes obedience.

"Faith come only after we are saved. "

Ok....but faith is of TORAH (Mt.23:23;Ps.119:30,86,138;Dt.32:20)....so they go TOGETHER.....

No.  Faith is of God---By  grace you have been saved through faith and that not of your self, it is the gift of God.

"In fact there are several verses that say we play no part in our salvation."

Ok...but saved people obey TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10)...they go TOGETHER...

No one with a sin nature can obey God's law perfectly.  Remember the sacrifice for sin has o be without spot of blemish,   You really need to pray about understanding chapter 7 of Romans.

In fact, Jesus said Torah-obedience is a sufficient condition of eternal life (Lk.10:25-28).

Jesus' reply in that pass age only concerned 2 requirements--loving God and our neighbor, not about keeping the Torah

"Phil 1:6 - If God begins it, we didn't."

Fine....but God also requires Torah too (Dt.1:3;5:27-33;etc.)...they go TOGETHER....

You keep reading something into verses that is not there.  Neither of those verses mentions sobedience.

"John John 6:37 - If God gives us to Jesus, we didn't go to Him."

Fine....but those in Christ obey Christ's teachings....and those teachings require TORAH (Mt.4:4;5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28)...they go TOGETHER.....

No one with a sin nature can obey God's laws good enough to earn salvation.  I will refer you again to Romans 7.  Paul couldn't do it and neither can you.

"I Pet 1:3 - If God caused us o be born again, we played no part in it."

Ok....but that God also requires that we obey TORAH (Dt.1:3;5:27-33;etc...)   

They go TOGETHER....

Yes but not for salvation or not to maintain our salvation.  We have been born again not of perishable seed, but imperishable(I Pet 1:23).  If you understand imperishable, you will know once we are saved, we are always saved.

50 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

"Love, peace and joy"

And Love requires TORAH (Dt.6:5,25;1Jn.5:3).

Peace extends to those who love Torah (Ps.119:165).

We REJOICE in the Lord (Php.4:4) who requires TORAH (Mt.5:19).

blessings....

Love, peace and joy

 

 

[BibleGuy]

17 hours ago, omega2xx said:

Yes but not for salvation or not to maintain our salvation.  We have been born again not of perishable seed, but imperishable(I Pet 1:23).  If you understand imperishable, you will know once we are saved, we are always saved.

 

Hi there!

I think Ezekiel 18 is pretty clear that OSAS is probably false.

Likewise with Heb. 6 and Heb. 10.

After all, the "imperishable" seed is referring to the WORD OF GOD....not to humans who are free to disobey if they choose....

The SEED is imperishable....humans, however, are subject to the risk of perishing if they do not repent (Lk.13:3)....

And Eze. 18 clearly confirms that a person can move back-and-forth from the "righteous" to the "wicked" category....depending upon their actions....

Jesus expects us to obey Torah and live (Mt.4:4)....but sometimes people fall from grace (Gal.5:4)....

blessings....

 

[omega2xx]

2 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

Hi there!

I think Ezekiel 18 is pretty clear that OSAS is probably false.

It would help if you would also include the verses you think refute OSAS

Likewise with Heb. 6 and Heb. 10.

Heb 6:4-6 are the usual verses used to try and refute OSAS.  However if we can lose our salvation then Phil 1:6 is false and there is no false verses in the Bible.  I wrestled with that verse for a long time and finally decided, it means it was impossible for man to renew them.  However, I am sure you accept That what is impossible with men are possible with God(Lk 18:26 & Mt 20:26).

IMO Heb 10 teaches OSAS.  Heb 10:10 tells us that By God will, we have been sanctified.  Then v 14 tells that the offering of Jesus has perfect for all time those who have been sanctified.

 

2 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

After all, the "imperishable" seed is referring to the WORD OF GOD....not to humans who are free to disobey if they choose....

The SEED is imperishable....humans, however, are subject to the risk of perishing if they do not repent (Lk.13:3)....

Christians are referred to seed, wheat seed, twice, both times in parables Jesus interrupted for us.  In Mt 13:38 the good seed are the sons  of the kingdom(Christians); in Lk 8:11 the seed is the word  of God.  Ther is a a geometric theorem that says, "things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.    That makes Christians the word of God.

The seed in I Pet 1:23 refers to those born again, not to the word of God.  Once we have been saved, we do not come into judgment(Jn 3:18 & 5:24). Verse 5:24 says  those who believe God sent Jesus  have ETERNAL LIFE   I am sure you know what eternal means.

To understand the Bible, we must learn to see the spiritual truth  God puts in figurative language, because that is the main way Jesus taught(Jn 16:25).  Gal 4:24 says the account of Sarah and Hagar is an allegory.  Allegories teach spiritual truths from a literal account.

From figurative language we need to see that God used being "born again" as an allegory.   What is true of our natural birth is just as true of our spiritual birth.  First, we did not play a part in our natural birth.  Neither die we play a part in our spiritual birth(I Pet 1:3).  Second, once we have been born physically, we can't be unborn.  The same is true of  our spiritual birth, once we have been born spiritually, we can't be unborn.

And Eze. 18 clearly confirms that a person can move back-and-forth from the "righteous" to the "wicked" category....depending upon their actions....

Our salvation never depends on our conduct.  It only depends on what we believe.  Once someone truly believes in Jesus, they can't not believe in Him  Anyone one you know personally, you can't not believe they exist.

Jesus expects us to obey Torah and live (Mt.4:4)....but sometimes people fall from grace (Gal.5:4)....

Jesus knows we will try to obey the Torah, but that we will fail  many times as Moses and Abraham did.   we may become prodigals and stray at times, but we will always return

I Jn 5:13 -  If we can't know we  have eternal life, that verse is a lie.

Love, peace and joy

 

 

[BibleGuy]

Hi there!

"It would help if you would also include the verses you think refute OSAS"

Eze. 18 shows you can go back-and-forth between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED categories.

That's pretty clear evidence against OSAS.

Php.1:6?  Sure, we can be CONFIDENT.....but confidence is not identical to 100% certainty.  

So, Php.1:6 need not be taken as contradicting Eze. 18 (and remember: Eze.18 rather clearly confirms that OSAS is likely false).

"Then v 14 tells that the offering of Jesus has perfect for all time those who have been sanctified."

ALL TIME need not be the translation of "διηνεκής".  Rather, it can simply mean ONGOING or CONTINUOUS....in which case OSAS can still be false.

 

"Second, once we have been born physically, we can't be unborn. "

But you CAN move from the RIGHTEOUS to the WICKED category, according to Eze. 18....so let's not take the analogy so far that we contradict Eze. 18.

"Our salvation never depends on our conduct."

Jesus disagrees...Jesus says that Torah-obedience is a sufficient condition of eternal life (Lk.10:25-28)....that's a CLEAR connection between eternal life and our conduct.

" It only depends on what we believe.  "

What we choose to BELIEVE is a subset of our CONDUCT....so again, we see a connection between eternal life and our conduct.

"Anyone one you know personally, you can't not believe they exist."

To BELIEVE in Jesus does not merely refer to believing "they exist"....rather, it refers to embracing Jesus' words and teachings into your life.

So, I think you've got an unbiblical conception of "believe" in your statement there....

"Jesus knows we will try to obey the Torah, but that we will fail  many times as Moses and Abraham did."

Sure, we have all sinned...be we can STILL be perfect (Mt.5:48)....as required by Torah (Dt.18:13)....and Jesus said this is EASY (Mt.11:30).

"but we will always return"

I hope so!  But Eze. 18 suggests that all do NOT always repent...

"I Jn 5:13 -  If we can't know we  have eternal life, that verse is a lie."

Depends upon your definition of "KNOW"....and so we need to explore what KNOWLEDGE is first, before we can agree.

After all, 100% certainty need not necessarily be a prerequisite for KNOWLEDGE, in general.

blessings...

 

 

 

 

[omega2xx]

On 1/6/2019 at 1:06 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Thanks to poor teaching in many churches , I don’t think it is ever considered.One might claim to believe in Grace,but let’s just keep one of our feet in works—- just to be safe! That approach will never lead to any rest.

We are to keep working, we were created for good works.  We just don't do good works to be saved.  The rest is spiritual, not physical.

I am sure most, if not all, who have commented on this subject know that, but it doesn't seem to be emphasized.

Love, peace, joy