The 2nd coming of Christ : No secret at all

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

What goodness is it for Jesus to take one and leave another one ? 

An emotional plea doth not maketh logical argument.

If I understand, not sure, but the goodness is the application of the promise of God. If you are in Christ at the time of the gathering you will receive of that promise, if you are not in Christ at the time you will receive a promise as well. Our Father keeps His word, that is goodness.

[Heleadethme]

8 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

May be it will be better if the verses will be written like this : "These are the ones who come out of the beheading in the great tribulation and washed their robes........".

Because apostle John saw two groups of people in heaven :

FIRST GROUP : The great multitude before the Throne, THEY ARE NOT SOULS but living people who escape the beheading.

Rev 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands 14.....these are they which came out of great tribulation 16... They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more.

 

SECOND GROUP : SOULS under the Altar, they are martyrs waiting for their fellows. THESE DON'T ESCAPE THE BEHEADING.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

THOSE SOULS MUST WAIT UNTIL THEIR FELLOWS/TRIBULATION SAINTS ARE ALSO MARTYRED IN THE 7 YEARS TRIBULATION OF THE WORLD.

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So we will belong to one of these 3 groups of people in the grief tribulation :

-Those who are raptured alive to heaven as the 1st group

-To be martyred in the tribulation if refuse to worship the beast and their souls to be gathered under the Altar

-To worship the beast like the rest of the world in the grief tribulation.

ARE YOU THE KIND OF BRIDEGROOM WHO WILL LET YOUR BRIDE BEING BEATEN BLACK AND BLUE FIRST BY WICKED PEOPLE ?

 

Like Peter, when he tried to talk Jesus out of going to the cross, you are having in mind the things of man here, not the things of God.  We need to look at persecution and martyrdom from heaven's perspective, not man's earthly perspective.  From heaven's perspective persecution and martyrdom is the preparation of the Bride.....and it is victory not defeat.  Just like Jesus went to the cross and was perfected in His sufferings, and in doing so defeated the devil.  From heaven's perspective we are to count it all joy......because it means we belong to Him.

[Heleadethme]

8 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

What goodness is it for Jesus to take one and leave another one ? 

Heb 12:5-8

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

[R. Hartono]

15 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

 From heaven's perspective persecution and martyrdom is the preparation of the Bride.....and it is victory not defeat.

God will take one and leave another one, do you think the taken one must still suffer persecution or death as martyrs ? Why bother taking them ?

The wise virgins shall be taken and the foolish virgins shall be left and become the bride of antichrist.

Jesus will not fetch His bride as dead bodies beaten black and blue, the foolish virgins will be let like that.

[R. Hartono]

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

An emotional plea doth not maketh logical argument.

If I understand, not sure, but the goodness is the application of the promise of God. If you are in Christ at the time of the gathering you will receive of that promise, if you are not in Christ at the time you will receive a promise as well. Our Father keeps His word, that is goodness.

Jesus promise to keep us from the hour of temptation, if we are patience in the test now. the test is now.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Jesus will not let His bride beaten black and blue by antichrist.

But the foolish virgins left will become the bride of antichrist and beaten black and blue if they resist.

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by R. Hartono

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Jesus promise to keep us from the hour of temptation, if we are patience in the test now. the test is now.

No.

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

No. This says He will keep watch, guard us, during the evil day. Even a normal reading does not result in 'leaving from one place to go to another'.

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Jesus will not let His bride beaten black and blue by antichrist.

But the foolish virgins left will become the bride of antichrist and beaten black and blue if they resist.

 

More emotional pleading, and it's wrong. You need to read ALL the NT.

[R. Hartono]

40 minutes ago, Diaste said:

No.

No. This says He will keep watch, guard us, during the evil day

 

Nobody will guard you on earth, the saints shall be taken.

Mat 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

The left behind will be killed until the number is accomplished in the tribulation, nobody guard you, God let it happen.

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

 

 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Nobody will guard you on earth, the saints shall be taken.

Mat 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

The left behind will be killed until the number is accomplished in the tribulation, nobody guard you, God let it happen.

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Incorrect.

What you have been taught in Rev 3:10 is that 'keep thee from the hour' means rapture, this is wrong. The word translated 'will keep' is tereso and is defined, " to watch over, to guard" and is used thus;
 "I keep, guard, observe, watch over." It make little sense to construe the following preposition, 'ek' to mean 'from out' when the idea of 'guard, watch over' is destroyed.  Here 'ek' is better understood as it's intended, "from within the source and the effect on the object". The object is you, the source is the trial and tereso is the posted guard watching over you, while within the trial!

No one is going anywhere before the rise of the beast.

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Jesus promise to keep us from the hour of temptation, if we are patience in the test now. the test is now.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Jesus will not let His bride beaten black and blue by antichrist.

But the foolish virgins left will become the bride of antichrist and beaten black and blue if they resist.

 

Hi RH,

"Jesus will not let His bride beaten black and blue by antichrist."

Why wouldn't He? Did Jesus not get beaten black and blue? Even worse, scripture tells us He was not even recognizable?

John 15:20....."Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’^[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also"

John 16:33.....""These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."

What is the purpose of the tribulation for Christians?

It is for us to give our testimony. There could be 10's or 100's of millions of Christians that will be put to death. This will be the "hour of testing".  Will we walk away or will we stand strong?

There are currently millions of Christians facing persecution to the point of death. Where is the promise of an early rapture for them? 

From the time of the Apostles till now (eleven of the Apostles were crucified), hundreds of millions of Christians have been slaughtered. Why would our time be any different? Why would only our "Church" be rescued by an early rapture? Doesn't make sense!

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, SelahSong said:

 

Hello, Hartono. . . Okay, so let's focus on Matthew 24.  I think a lot of people are confused because they don't read the verses before verse 40.  Note what verses 37, 38 and 39 say.  The word of God can't be understood if it gets chopped up, verses snatched from here and there.  Okay, so who were taken away in the flood in verse 39?

...

Matthew 24:37-45 King James Version (KJV)

³⁷ But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

³⁸ For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

³⁹ And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

⁴⁰ Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

⁴¹ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

⁴² Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

…

So you see that Christians are the ones that remain working in the field.  God has work for us to do, especially in these last days. Amen!  

 

Excellent!

I had not seen it this way until I read your post. 

Blessings