What Paul Says

[JustPassingThru]

3 hours ago, Butero said:

3 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

Noah,  different dispensation Eph 3:2, ...different rules.

That is not my quote.  This is the second time someone else's words were attributed to me.   Faithbuilders said that in disagreeing with something I had said.  

I apologize bro, the thread is so long I must have missed the original, again I apologize.

 

Lord bless

[Willa]

Just now, maryjayne said:

 

Pheobe was a deaconess, which is the meaning of the word interpreted servant.  

2 minutes ago, SelahSong said:

because your heart was tender, and you humbled yourself before the Lord 

Satan was the first to usurp authority when he rebelled against God seeking to take God's authority for himself. Pride is the root of rebellion.  So become prideful and seeking take the authority God gave to others is to usurp authority.  

Humility does the task assigned to it and does it cheerfully as unto the Lord, whether to prophecy or to fill in doing tasks needed by circumstances.  That is how we as women serve God.  But that is also how men are to serve God.  He opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.

[Guest Butero]

The reference to women not usurping authority over the man is in reference to a husband and wife.  It all goes back to the original sin in the garden, where God had told Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and rather than obey God, he obeyed his wife.  In the home, the husband is the authority, and when there is a disagreement, he has the final say unless he is ordering his wife to commit sin.  She is not to usurp her husband's authority and try to be his spiritual leader in the home.  

God's Word only mentions three offices a woman is not qualified to fill, and there are no examples of any women in those offices.  That is Bishop, Deacon and Elder.  Women do not qualify to hold any of those offices.  

[Heybro]

My thoughts on this subject are reflected in what Willa and Marilyn have posted. In my church there are women who have been appointed elders. I am not in agreement with this, being an elder there as well, and I stated those thoughts, using scripture as my base, to the head elder who instigated this move. There have been a couple of incidents that have occurred since the inception of the ladies, which have supported my belief. However, I know that God is overall and He has ALL THINGS under His control, I submit to His leading and trust Him to work it through.

[Guest Butero]

1 minute ago, Heybro said:

My thoughts on this subject are reflected in what Willa and Marilyn have posted. In my church there are women who have been appointed elders. I am not in agreement with this, being an elder there as well, and I stated those thoughts, using scripture as my base, to the head elder who instigated this move. There have been a couple of incidents that have occurred since the inception of the ladies, which have supported my belief. However, I know that God is overall and He has ALL THINGS under His control, I submit to His leading and trust Him to work it through.

It amazes me how people think they know better than God, and will willfully disregard his established order.  The qualifications for Bishop, Deacon and Elder are plainly given.  There are many men that are not qualified to serve in those offices too, but no women can possibly qualify because they cannot be the husband of one wife, and they are not the spiritual leaders in their home, so they are not the ones who would rule their homes well.  

[Guest Butero]

I do believe that a Pastor is not necessarily a Bishop, and there are ways a woman can be a Pastor and not have any authority or spiritual leadership over men.  We have people with that particular gift that are more specialized, and a woman could be a Pastor over Children's Church or have a group of ladies she teaches.  There are different ways to use your gifts.  There are many large churches with a head Pastor and many other Pastors beside.  Just something to consider.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by Butero

[Guest Butero]

25 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

have we defined 'usurping' yet?

have we defined 'headship' yet?

have  we worked out if a woman is under the headship of all men, or her just husband (if she has one) or just her father or eldest male relative if single?

 

I have no issue with being under my own husbands headship. All the rest, I am not clear on. However, due to my husbands situation, sometimes i have to assume headship on some things he is not capable of dealing with. Some decisions I have to over-ride him on. I am not sure where that leave me, and other Christian women in that situation.

Over-riding him is usurping his authority.  The whole issue in the church is that women are not able to be the husband of one wife, so they can't qualify to be a Bishop, Deacon or Elder.  I posted the passage giving the qualifications of Bishop.  Deacon follows in the same chapter.  Anyone can see women can't fill those offices.  

[Guest Butero]

Just now, maryjayne said:

My questioning isnt about wanting pushy females. There is nothing wrong with asking questions respectfully. It does not make me a rampant feminist to ask questions. i do not like your implication.

I want to know the clear bible truth, i have no agenda here.

I can clearly see you are trying to find answers, so this is only a question I have after reading what you said about your husband.  How can someone over-ride a person they don't have authority over?   That is like me not liking what my boss told me to do, and after letting him know my objections, trying to over-ride him and do what I think is best.  That doesn't work.  I can rebel against an authority, but I can't rightly use authority I don't possess.  

[Guest Butero]

Just now, maryjayne said:

thats why I am asking, because, right up til now, i hadnt given it a thought that I might be doing that. But even so, I still have to do it sometimes and hope God understands.

Without getting into something that is too personal, can you explain why it is sometimes necessary?  If it is too personal, I understand, and won't push the issue.  I am trying to understand you.  

[Guest Butero]

17 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

thank you. Is that the bible meaning too? sometimes bible meaning are different.

and does that also apply to men who try to usurp Jesus headship? because men are under headship too, arent they.

The primary way men obey Jesus is by obeying His Word.  He isn't actually standing beside us having a conversation and telling us what to do, at least not as a general rule.  He instructs us through His Word.  Even in cases where the husband isn't following Christ, wives are supposed to obey them unless they are telling the wives to sin.  

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;  While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.  1 Peter 3:1,2

I have seen some people claim that wives don't have to obey their husband if they feel they are not obeying Christ, but that is clearly not true.  We will all give an account to God of our behavior as individuals at the judgment.  God will deal with men that refused to obey him in His own time.