Forgive them because they know not what they do?

[Christiangal]

Jesus said “forgive them for they know what not they do” when people were crucifying him  and Stephen said this when he was being stoned to death. I find this amazing BUT sometimes people are evil and know EXACTLY what they’re doing.  They know they are intentionally and strategically destroying your lives.  Isn’t that what a narcissist and psychopath does?  Or a racist or someone with a cruel evil heart?  So........  can you honestly ever say “forgive them for they know  not what they do”?  Do they really not know what they are doing?

 

[Neighbor]

5 hours ago, Christiangal said:

So........  can you honestly ever say “forgive them for they know  not what they do”?  Do they really not know what they are doing?

Hi, Many do.  Many forgive if not all. It is perhaps the strongest victory over evil that is possible outside of being present with Jesus.

You have likely seen news videos of it happening several times even in the most recent of times:

A man enters a Christian church and just starts killing people  where they sit in worship of God. Later the families of the several deceased and the many wounded pray for the man and forgive him, using pretty much those same words - he knows not what he does.

In their minds, hearts, and souls, those believers in Jesus as their own Lord and savior by their testimony of obedience to our Lord are also saying - BUT WE DO! You the child of the evil one do not know what you do, but we do. we are the children of God, we understand the evil one ,and we forgive you his minion, allowing all vengenace to be our LORD'S vengeance alone.

The believers in Christ Jesus  will not violate His command to us to leave such things to God. The saint in Christ will then unite in praise of our Lord Jesus and do all that they do to the Glory of God. They do not act in kind in the manner of the children of the evil one and that,-"heaps burning coals on his head"

[Neighbor]

Martyrdom is different ( by my understanding ). For that is a spiritual gift from God the Holy Spirit. Not everyone has  the same spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Not everyone is led to go challenge demons, minions and followers of evil  directly and take the consequence that comes, which can be a brutal death.

While I would not go to Benin face a voodoo worshipper that says I cannot touch a wall it is the curse that will kill by the power of their god; I know a man that does just that and much more. He walks to the wall puts his hands on it and then turns to tell the voodoo leader that the  wall has no power and his god has no power either not over Jesus who is lord God and savior of those that will be called by the Holy Spirit to receive him. This missionary for Christ Jesus has taken robbing and beatings in his travels, but he has no fear and will not back down. He is lead to go into  many places like Benin by the Holy Spirit God. Not all have that gift.

btw that leader eventually has come to see that Jesus is His Lord and savior, He has renounced his voodoo and wants  what Christians have.

[Willa]

The people allowed a thief to go free and called for the crucifixion of Jesus.  They did not know He was the Messiah.  The people who planned His illegal trial by night and all were committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, in my opinion.  They had seen His miracles and attributed them too Satan.  They had  planned for some time to kill Him and had tried to stone Him to death for claiming to be I AM who had seen Abraham. 

The problem is that unless we forgive we will not be forgiven.  If we harbor unforgiveness it will destroy and corrupt us.  We will develop a root of bitterness, which is sin.  Jesus was without sin.  He obeyed the Father perfectly.

[Blood Bought 1953]

6 hours ago, Christiangal said:

Jesus said “forgive them for they know what not they do” when people were crucifying him  and Stephen said this when he was being stoned to death. I find this amazing BUT sometimes people are evil and know EXACTLY what they’re doing.  They know they are intentionally and strategically destroying your lives.  Isn’t that what a narcissist and psychopath does?  Or a racist or someone with a cruel evil heart?  So........  can you honestly ever say “forgive them for they know  not what they do”?  Do they really not know what they are doing?

 

 

It could be added that Paul said that God blessed him with his ministry because his sins were done in ignorance.....

Edited January 24, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[Blood Bought 1953]

2 hours ago, Willa said:

The people allowed a thief to go free and called for the crucifixion of Jesus.  They did not know He was the Messiah.  The people who planned His illegal trial by night and all were committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, in my opinion.  They had seen His miracles and attributed them too Satan.  They had  planned for some time to kill Him and had tried to stone Him to death for claiming to be I AM who had seen Abraham. 

The problem is that unless we forgive we will not be forgiven.  If we harbor unforgiveness it will destroy and corrupt us.  We will develop a root of bitterness, which is sin.  Jesus was without sin.  He obeyed the Father perfectly.

 

In this current Age of Grace, our sins are already forgiven  and not dependent on whether we forgive others or not.Seeing how God forgave us “ our” sins without us deserving it, we should be more than willing to forgive others.Forgive because we have already been forgiven—- that is the motive to forgive , this side of the Cross.

[Willa]

3 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

In this current Age of Grace, our sins are already forgiven  and not dependent on whether we forgive others or not.Seeing how God forgave us “ our” sins without us deserving it, we should be more than willing to forgive others.Forgive because we have already been forgiven—- that is the motive to forgive , this side of the Cross.

Heb 12:15  See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

This indicates that the person who is not forgiving may not obtain the grace of the cross, that perhaps their unforgiveness hardens their heart with bitterness so that they fall short.  I think of Simon the Sorcerer.  Both of these are after the cross.  Perhaps these are people who were not filled with thanksgiving due to their bitterness and so didn't surrender to Jesus as their Lord.  Or perhaps they are saved as by fire.  Certainly they never know the joy of their salvation if they are full of bitterness.

 Also the parable:

 Mat 18:3 Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.

 Mat 18:33 And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’

 Mat 18:34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers,[fn] until he should pay all his debt.

 Mat 18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

[dr3032]

They know not what they do, and if they seem like they do, then they have barely an inkling of it.

A man finds out that his wife is cheating on him. The man tracks down his wife's lover and murders him in a blind rage. One could blame his emotions in the heat of the moment, yes, but the act of taking a life isn't done with a snap of the fingers. As he approaches the house, he knows he does not belong within, and has a chance to turn around. When he sees the man in his shock at the intruder, looks into his eyes, sees that he is an actual person, he has a chance to not go through with the deed. When he lunges at his wife's lover, cutting and scraping him with the knife in the struggle, he knows that murder is wrong. What he doesn't know, though? As he plunges the blade into the man, he is stabbing and damning himself many times over. In fact, the funny part is, in most affairs, the "lover" is unaware that who they're with is already married. The lover could have been innocent in his ignorance, unknowing that his girlfriend was already taken, but the husband was guilty in his knowledge, knowing that to kill the lover was incorrect.

They have convinced themselves that they truly understand and know what they do, but they do not. You look at serial killers who claim to have been born evil, or that "it's just natural, everyone else is unnatural," they are merely coughing up excuses for their behavior. They know that it is incorrect, and yes, they claimed that they did not care about the consequences - but hell is no picnic. They had an idea of what they were doing, but they were unable to fully grasp it.

The way I like to think of it is, if you stare long and hard enough into the void, the void eventually stares back into you. They are people who fell victim to the darkness, whether they thought they knew it or not, and that is always tragic. As they say when it comes to bullies, if you look at them and at their victim, you will often find two children in need of help. It's easier said than done, but we must try to forgive them, for it is not the trigger but the finger that uses it, nor is it the wheel but rather the one driving it.

[BeyondET]

On 1/24/2019 at 9:26 AM, Christiangal said:

Jesus said “forgive them for they know what not they do” when people were crucifying him  and Stephen said this when he was being stoned to death. I find this amazing BUT sometimes people are evil and know EXACTLY what they’re doing.  They know they are intentionally and strategically destroying your lives.  Isn’t that what a narcissist and psychopath does?  Or a racist or someone with a cruel evil heart?  So........  can you honestly ever say “forgive them for they know  not what they do”?  Do they really not know what they are doing?

 

It really doesn’t matter if they know or not, it really isn’t between you and them but it’s between you and God.

[Wayne222]

18 hours ago, Willa said:

Heb 12:15  See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

This indicates that the person who is not forgiving may not obtain the grace of the cross, that perhaps their unforgiveness hardens their heart with bitterness so that they fall short.  I think of Simon the Sorcerer.  Both of these are after the cross.  Perhaps these are people who were not filled with thanksgiving due to their bitterness and so didn't surrender to Jesus as their Lord.  Or perhaps they are saved as by fire.  Certainly they never know the joy of their salvation if they are full of bitterness.

 Also the parable:

 Mat 18:3 Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.

 Mat 18:33 And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’

 Mat 18:34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers,[fn] until he should pay all his debt.

 Mat 18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

Is it talking about unforgiven heart ? Maybe but I think those who refuse christ as savior were bitter about life in general.  I know one such person. They left believin in christ because of anger. So they were not saved. But almost believe in christ.