Heaven when

[plavious]

Just my one little contribution to @Happy Felix question.  Many explicit verses declare that the resurrection will not occur until the end of the age when Christ returns.

In Daniel 12:13 an angel looks ahead to the resurrection as occurring at the end of the age: "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

In John 6:40 Christ declares that the resurrection will happen on the last day: "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (See also John 6:39, 44, 54).

Paul specifies this meaning even further, stating in 1 Corinthians 15:23that we will be raised at the return of Christ: "Each [will be raised] in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming."

In 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 he also looks ahead to the resurrection as something that will occur not until Christ comes back: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord."

All Christians will be glorified together
The fact that the resurrection will happen at the return of Christ has important implications: It means that glorification will be a corporate realityand not an individual experience that happens to each believer separately at death. All Christians will be raised into glory together. While we all lived at different periods of time, we all came to faith at different times, and we all will have died at different times (except for those who lived until Christ returns), it is an amazing thing that God has planned things such that our glorification will occur at the same time. What a great encouragement it is to know that the believers of the past are waiting for us to finish the race ourselves so that we can all experience the great joy of glorification togethe

[Keras]

1 Thess 4:17 does not say 'all'. 

Revelation 20:4 makes it clear that only the Tribulation martyrs are brought back to life at Jesus' Return. The rest of the dead await the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

[iamlamad]

On 2/14/2019 at 10:11 AM, plavious said:

Just my one little contribution to @Happy Felix question.  Many explicit verses declare that the resurrection will not occur until the end of the age when Christ returns.

In Daniel 12:13 an angel looks ahead to the resurrection as occurring at the end of the age: "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

In John 6:40 Christ declares that the resurrection will happen on the last day: "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (See also John 6:39, 44, 54).

Paul specifies this meaning even further, stating in 1 Corinthians 15:23that we will be raised at the return of Christ: "Each [will be raised] in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming."

In 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 he also looks ahead to the resurrection as something that will occur not until Christ comes back: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord."

All Christians will be glorified together
The fact that the resurrection will happen at the return of Christ has important implications: It means that glorification will be a corporate realityand not an individual experience that happens to each believer separately at death. All Christians will be raised into glory together. While we all lived at different periods of time, we all came to faith at different times, and we all will have died at different times (except for those who lived until Christ returns), it is an amazing thing that God has planned things such that our glorification will occur at the same time. What a great encouragement it is to know that the believers of the past are waiting for us to finish the race ourselves so that we can all experience the great joy of glorification togethe

Indeed, the Jews and Hebrews WILL be raised up on the last day, just as Jesus said. But the church will be raptured 7 plus years before that "last day."  And the rapture will be at His coming; but it will not be His Rev. 19 coming; it will be His 1 thes. 4 coming: two different comings at two different times for two different purposes.

[R. Hartono]

On 4/26/2019 at 6:56 AM, iamlamad said:

But the church will be raptured 7 plus years before that "last day."  And the rapture will be at His coming.

Are u saying that saints r taken to the cloud at the rapture then Jesus make a huge U Turn in the sky to return the saints to earth ?

[R. Hartono]

On 4/14/2019 at 4:50 PM, Keras said:

1 Thess 4:17 does not say 'all'. 

Revelation 20:4 makes it clear that only the Tribulation martyrs are brought back to life at Jesus' Return. The rest of the dead await the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

Hi Keras, you also come here from Christianforums ?

[missmuffet]

Question: "What is the first resurrection? What is the second resurrection?"

Answer: Daniel 12:2 summarizes the two very different fates facing mankind: “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Everyone will be raised from the dead, but not everyone will share the same destiny. The New Testament reveals the further detail of separate resurrections for the just and the unjust.

Revelation 20:4-6 mentions a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).

The first resurrection takes place in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection. Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at the great white throne judgment prior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29).

The event which divides the first and second resurrections seems to be the millennial kingdom. The last of the righteous are raised to reign “with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4), but the “rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5).

What great rejoicing will attend the first resurrection! What great anguish at the second! What a responsibility we have to share the Gospel! “And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire” (Jude 23).

https://www.gotquestions.org/resurrection-first-second.html

Edited April 30, 2019 by missmuffet

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Are u saying that saints r taken to the cloud at the rapture then Jesus make a huge U Turn in the sky to return the saints to earth ?

Some people swear by the U TURN theory. It is Jesus that makes the U TURN: He will escort His Bride back to heaven to wait out the period of God's wrath poured out on earth.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Question: "What is the first resurrection? What is the second resurrection?"

Answer: Daniel 12:2 summarizes the two very different fates facing mankind: “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Everyone will be raised from the dead, but not everyone will share the same destiny. The New Testament reveals the further detail of separate resurrections for the just and the unjust.

Revelation 20:4-6 mentions a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).

The first resurrection takes place in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection. Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at the great white throne judgment prior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29).

The event which divides the first and second resurrections seems to be the millennial kingdom. The last of the righteous are raised to reign “with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4), but the “rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5).

What great rejoicing will attend the first resurrection! What great anguish at the second! What a responsibility we have to share the Gospel! “And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire” (Jude 23).

https://www.gotquestions.org/resurrection-first-second.html

Well written! 

[Retrobyter]

On 4/14/2019 at 5:50 AM, Keras said:

1 Thess 4:17 does not say 'all'. 

Revelation 20:4 makes it clear that only the Tribulation martyrs are brought back to life at Jesus' Return. The rest of the dead await the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

Shalom, Keras.

NONSENSE. Verse 6 makes it clear that it DOES apply to "all!" You've got to read the WHOLE passage and not just take a single verse and make it your theology!

Revelation 20:4-6 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

He's not just resurrecting the beheaded ones! He's resurrecting ALL on whom "the second death has no power!" You've "put the cart before the horse!"

[Retrobyter]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:24 AM, iamlamad said:

Some people swear by the U TURN theory. It is Jesus that makes the U TURN: He will escort His Bride back to heaven to wait out the period of God's wrath poured out on earth.

Shalom, iamlamad.

Yeah, and I'm one of them! The U TURN theory makes perfect sense if you realize that we are talking about THREE dimensions! It's not just "up-down"; it's "up-OVER-and down!" He will be in the process of taking all of us with Him to the Middle East!

That's why I say it's more of a Mass Transit System!

By the way, we'll be PART of the pouring out of God's wrath upon those who are trying to eliminate the Jews! One need not fear God's wrath if one is His child! However, we should have the same ZEAL for Israel that the Messiah will have!

Edited May 5, 2019 by Retrobyter