The Great Tribulation What is it? When will it occur? What is its purpose?

[JoeCanada]

Let's add to this.

 The purpose of trials....persecution....tribulation:

Say you own a gold mine.

Will you crush all the rock around it, hoping that some contains gold?

Or would you only crush the rock that contains gold, however small a fraction that would be in a ton of rock? 1 part in 30,000 or even 1 part in 300,000.

Those minute grains of gold must be present in the rock to start with. If those tiny grains aren’t present in the rock to start with, then no amount of crushing and processing will yield any gold. The crushing to powder cannot produce any gold. The rock itself must already contain the gold to start with.

Solomon wrote: The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the LORD tries (i.e. examines and tests) the hearts. (Proverbs 17:3)

Trials are for those who already contain within themselves that "something", where the prospects for producing gold are fairly good. But trials are not for those who don’t contain within themselves any gold to start with. When such people, who don’t already contain some gold within themselves, are exposed to trials, then that is commonly a penalty for transgressing God’s laws, rather than that being a test of faith.

So when people are more repentant and more committed to God after going through a trial, then the trial is not the cause for that greater commitment. The trial is only the means for bringing out into the open something that was there to start with. And that "something" is a certain frame of mind, a certain way of thinking and reasoning, which way of thinking can be brought into harmony with God’s way of thinking. And trials are a tool for bringing that way of thinking into harmony with how God thinks and reasons.

God will do everything to lead as many men and women to salvation as possible. But God also recognizes that there are always going to be some people who simply lack that certain "something". In those cases even God is not able to get them to change the way they use their minds, to change their way of thinking.

 

James 1:2-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

² Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various ^[a]trials, ³ knowing that the testing of your faith produces ^[b]endurance. ⁴ And let ^[c]endurance have its perfect ^[d]result, so that you may be ^[e]perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

1 Peter 1:7

These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.

Edited October 19, 2019 by JoeCanada

[Marilyn C]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 12:37 AM, angels4u said:

 

Hi angel4u,

Some very good teaching there, which I agree with. However a few points that I see need clearing up.

1. The A/C will be the leader of the Islamic Federation. He is the Assyrian, (Isa. 31: 8) and King of the North, (Dan. 11: 40) And that area is the region of Iraq, Syria and Jordan, the old Assyrian empire.

2. Only the Lord`s angels come back with Him. (Matt. 25: 31)

3. Israel is the `bride,` as revealed in the OT.  ( Isa. 54: 5, Hosea 2: 19 & 20) We are the Body, the new man. (Eph. 1: 22 & 23,  2: 15)  

regards, Marilyn.

[Gentle-Warrior]

20 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Mt.24:3 "... and what  shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (looks like the disciples themselves had an interest in the end of history)

("this generation" in v.34 could also be understood as"age"strong's #1074. Many believers refer to time of Christ on earth  to the last day of the world as the generation of Jesus Christ, since He is the last).

 Where does it say that Jesus was talking about the end of the world and where is the context of what He was saying to His own DISCIPLES??? Your understanding of these scriptures are totally irrelevant to Jesus' disciples since all of the things Jesus said to them was nothing but mere information that applied to no one in particular except for a far, far, far future generation that probably hasn't been born yet. 

Think about it before you respond please. 

By the way, "this generation" means it was it says, not what you would like it to mean. This generation means 'THIS GENERATION"!!! Not 2,000 plus years into the future. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[Gentle-Warrior]

3 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Hi again. Can I ask you something? Do you consider yourself a preterist?

No, I don't. 

[Gentle-Warrior]

1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

ok. I am not a Greek scholar so thank God for study tools ( although they can't be completely trusted like the Bible). The Greek word for generation in Matthew 24:34 is "genea" #1074. In other places in the Bible it is translated as "age","nation"or "time". I think sometimes the translator (KJV) didn't always use the best suited word for the context. Perhaps there is more of an understanding to the word generation then just a period of 38 years.

In any event when you compare some of these verses in Matthew 24 with the rest of the Bible you really get a good idea of what's going on. Hey, this discussion isn't too hard to reconcile. There are actually people out there  that think that we're living in the new earth age, that Christ actually came back the second time. Can you imagine that?

GENERATION:
11.4 γενεάa, ᾶς f: people living at the same time and belonging to the same reproductive age-class—‘those of the same time, those of the same generation.’ ἐκζητηθήσεται ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης ‘the people of this generation will be punished’ Lk 11:51.
The expression ‘the people of this generation’ may also be expressed as ‘the people living now’ or ‘the people of this time.’ Successive generations may be spoken of as ‘groups of people who live one after the other’ or ‘successions of parents and children.’

Louw, Johannes P., and Eugene Albert Nida. Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains 1996 : 119. Print.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[Gentle-Warrior]

4 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

ok. so I use the strongs concordance and the englishman's Greek Concordance along with the Easton Bible dictionary. This is all for the King James version, which I consider to be one of the best translations available- some may not agree with that but I've never studied a  Bible that is so consistent from the Old Testament to the New Testament as the King James, especially when you add the Strong's Concordance. When using these  study materials I really do get a more in depth perspective of the word( by no means am I faulting the Lexicon you are using).

How about v.30 when Jesus comes. You don't think that happened in the first century?

I don't care about the kjv. I actually hate it because it is 412 years old and reads like Shakespeare being constipated while trying to poop. So, it you want a real Bible that can be understood, use the NASB or the NKJV, otherwise, you are going to wind up loving the translation but never getting to read it from cover to cover. Don't be part of the kjvo where people love the name but actually never read it because therein thousands of words that we no longer use, much less understand. 

So, let's get back to what Jesus said in Mat. 23:36, 24:34, Mark 13:30. The events the Lord was talking about were going to take place in their own generation, and it did, but I won't waste my time if you don't want to learn the truth. 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[Gentle-Warrior]

18 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

You actually didn't answer the question ( I'm sorry I didn't know they KJV  would freak you out) if you believe everything happened in that " generation"  then  what about v.30... did Jesus Christ come already?

About verse 30, yes, Jesus "came" but not as you assume. Notice that Jesus did not mention the end of time, but rather He used metaphorical language that everyone understood in those days very well (except modern Christianity). Coming in the clouds means the coming of judgment against the people that not only rejected their own Messiah, but also persecuted to the dead Jews that believed in Him (Isa. 19:1; Jer. 4:12, Rev. 1:7, 7:1-3; 1 Thes. 2:14-16) 

The "sign of the Son of Man" means "A SIGN" which pointed to the destruction of the temple, the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the age (old covenant age) just as Jesus prophesied in Mat. 22:1-14, Matt. 23:34-38, Lk 11:49-51. When judgment against Jerusalem and against the false Jews that had rejected their own Messiah came, they remembered what Jesus had said 40 years previously and understood the SIGN OF THE TIMES (Rev. 1:7).

Let me remind you that the bible was not written to us directly, but to a people that lived in a certain time and who understood things differently than we do. So you need to take into consideration the culture of the day, the language difference (Jews spoke in picture language using much exaggerations to make a point. Greeks didn't because they spoke in abstract concepts). 

 

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

18 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

bingo... preterist

The truth has no labels. Deal with what I said.

[Gentle-Warrior]

On 12/15/2019 at 5:53 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

ok.  I didn't feel completely comfortable posting that last night. I wouldn't like to be called a calvinist as well.  Do you also believe that we are now living in the new earth age?

We live under the canopy of the new and everlasting covenant. I don't know what you mean by the "new earth age." I never heard of that before nor do I know how anyone could say that.

Once the Lord returns, all things will be restored just as He promised (Rev. 21:5). 

[RogerDC]

If you ask me, we are presently n the midst of the  Great Tribulation - it began with World War I and is ongoing..  But what would I know?