ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL

[douge]

21 hours ago, Co - heir in Christ said:

 First of all, I'd like to thank you for your politeness as well.

     I still disagree w/ you, but I wish everyone would study their Word as much as you do, and I'm glad God put you on my side. I think you'll do a lot of good work for God.

   My personal take on the Exodus passage when seen next to the Revelation passage, is that - while the words of Exodus 19: 6 were certainly only physically addressed to the actual, flesh - and- blood Israelites - the death and resurrection of Yeshua/Jesus granted spiritual access to those promises of God for those outside of the fold who would become born again through accepting Yeshua/Jesus' incredible gift.

   But, as I said, that's my personal take on it, and I'll pray for further knowledge on it so that I don't run the risk of spreading an interpretation that's not fully accurate.

   I think I've probably said everything I can on this topic, so I probably won't comment on it again (although I'll definitely still read and consider any further points you have on the matter), even if you quote another differing opinion. Plus, I don't want you to think I'm just badgering you, or seeking an argument.

   However, it's not common that I meet someone w/ a love for the Word, so I don't want to pass up the opportunity to have more conversations w/ you, on whatever topics, in the future.

   Peace, brother!

   

   

Hey Brother

Glad to discuss anything you want.

You said......... "My personal take on the Exodus passage when seen next to the Revelation passage, is that - while the words of Exodus 19: 6 were certainly only physically addressed to the actual, flesh - and- blood Israelites - the death and resurrection of Yeshua/Jesus granted spiritual access to those promises of God for those outside of the fold who would become born again through accepting Yeshua/Jesus' incredible gift. "

We are not far apart in what you said. While I don't see grounds to say the church has replaced Israel or become spiritual Israel or whatever....we have been made partakers of their spiritual things.

Romans 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

[douge]

5 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

In response to the last part that I highlighted: There is no Biblical evidence that those Gentiles believed that because we don't have any of their handwritten epistles where they claim that.

Hello

We do have an example of the Gentiles believing Peter:

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

 

[Marilyn C]

23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douge,

You do have a good understanding of much of God`s word and it is good to read what you say. I do agree that the church, the Body of Christ is NOT Israel. So that`s great we can agree there. However there is a very important point that needs to be looked at. I have stated elsewhere that the two offices of King and priest are separate in Israel while in the Body of Christ who has the `on top` calling, (high calling) on Christ`s own throne, we will be kingpriests as God`s word says.

The Lord Himself is the highPriest and the King. Where there is a high priest there are other priests and they are of the same Melchizedek order, (kingpriests). That is shown in Rev. 1:6 &  5: 9 - 10) Also for us to sit on His throne, (Rev. 3: 21) indicates we will all rule, (Kingship) whereas Israel will only have ONE king - king David in the millennium, (under Christ).

Marilyn.

Hi douge,

You seem to miss my comments when I write about kingpriests. Israel has those two offices separately, while the Body of Christ has them together, a higher calling.

Marilyn.

[Joulre2abba]

20 hours ago, douge said:

Hello

We do have an example of the Gentiles believing Peter:

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
 

I was responding to your words (underlined)

You are right the Gentiles were to provoke Israel to jealousy. These Gentiles are not Israel they are part of the remnant of the election of grace. These are the Gentiles who heard the preaching of Peter and the Apostles and believed but they are not Gentiles in the body of Christ.

That part has no support in the new testament.

But we have from Paul writing the Gentiles .. which includes all who heard the gospel through the apostles..

1 Cor.12:27 "Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it."

If you continue on this line of discussion, you will have to find someone else to participate. There's always the possibility that there will be another topic that we will agree on.

[douge]

48 minutes ago, Joulre2abba said:

I was responding to your words (underlined)

You are right the Gentiles were to provoke Israel to jealousy. These Gentiles are not Israel they are part of the remnant of the election of grace. These are the Gentiles who heard the preaching of Peter and the Apostles and believed but they are not Gentiles in the body of Christ.

That part has no support in the new testament.

But we have from Paul writing the Gentiles .. which includes all who heard the gospel through the apostles..

1 Cor.12:27 "Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it."

If you continue on this line of discussion, you will have to find someone else to participate. There's always the possibility that there will be another topic that we will agree on.

Hello

There were Gentiles who believed before Paul was saved and before the body of Christ was formed.

Acts 10:43-48 is one example of Gentiles saved before Paul...they are called "The church of God" not the body of Christ.

Paul persecuted the church of God before his conversion (1 Corinthians 15:9).

The body of Christ was revealed only by Paul ...the first mention of the body of Christ is Romans 12:5

[Daniel Marsh]

The Church Is Israel Now By Charles D. Provan TABLE OF CONTENTS Section 1 Old Testament Titles and Attributes of Israel Which Are, In the New Testament, Referred to the Christian Church The Beloved of God A. Israel Is Beloved of God Exodus 15:13/Dueteronomy 33:3/Ezra 3:11 B. Disobedient Israel Is Not Beloved of God Leviticus 26:28, 30/Jerimiah 12:8/Jerimiah 16:5/Hosea 9:15/Amos 9:7/Mathhew 3:7/Phillipians 3:2/1 Thessalonians 2:14-16/Titus 1:10 C. The Christians Are Beloved of God Romans 9:25/Ephesians 5:1/Colossians 3:12/1 John 3:1 The Children of God A. Israelites Are the Children of God Exodus 4:22/Deuteronomy 14:1/Isaiah 1:2, 4/Isaish 63:8/ Jeremiah 31:9/Hosea 11:1 B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Children of God Deuteronomy 32:5/John 8:39, 42, 44 C. The Christians Are the Children of God John 1:12/John 11:52/Romans 8:14, 16/2 Corinthians 6:18/Galatians 3:26/Galatians 4:5, 6, 7/Philipians 2:15/1 John 3:1 The Field of God A. Israel Is the Field of God Jeremiah 12:10 B. The Christians Are the Field of God 1 Corinthians 3:9 The Flock of God and of the Messiah A. Israel Is the Flock of God and of the Messiah Psalms 78:52/Psalms 80:1/Isaiah 40:11/Jeremiah 23:1, 2, 3/Jeremiah 31:10/ Ezekiel 34:12, 15, 16/ Micah 5:4/ Zechariah 10:3 B. The Christians Are the Flock of God and of the Messiah John 10:14, 16/Hebrews 13:20/1 Peter 2:25/ 1 Peter 5:2, 3 The House of God A. Israel Is the House of God Numbers 12:7 B. The Christians Are the House of God 1 Timothy 3:15/Hebrews 3:2, 5, 6/Hebrews 10:21/1 Peter 4:17 The Kingdom of God A. Israel Is the Kingdom of God Exodus 19:6/1 Chronicles 17:14/ 1 Chronicles 28:5 B. Disobedient Israel Is Not the Kingdom of God Matthew 8:11, 12/Matthew 21:43 C. The Christians Are the Kingdom of God Romans 14:17/1 Corinthians 4:20/Colossians 4:11/Revelation 1:6 The People of God A. Israelites Are the People of God Exodus 6:7/Deuteronomy 27:9/2 Samuel 7:23/Jeremiah 11:4 B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the People of God Hosea 1:9/Jeremiah 5:10 C. The Christians Are the People of God Romans 9:25/2 Corinthians 6:16/Ephesians 4:12/ Ephesians 5:3/2 Thessalonians 1:10/ Titus 2:14 The Priests of God A. The Israelites Are the Priests of God Exodus 19:6 B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Priests of God 1 Samuel 2:28, 30/Lamantations 4:13,16/Ezekiel 44:10, 13/Hosea 4:6/Malachi 2:2, 4, 8, 9 C. The Christians Are the Priests of God 1 Peter 2:5, 9/Revelation 1:6/Revelation 5:10 The Vineyard of God A. Israel Is the Vineyard of God Isaiah 5:3, 4, 5, 7/ Jeremiah 12:10 B. The Christians Are the Vineyard of God Luke 20:16 The Wife (or Bride) of God A. Israel Is the Wife (or Bride) of God Isaiah 54:5, 6/Jeremiah 12:10 B. Disobedient Israel is Not the Wife (or Bride) of God Jeremiah 3:8/Hosea 2:2 C. The Christians Are the Wife (or Bride) God 2 Corinthians 11:2/Ephesians 5:31, 2 The Children of Abraham A. The Israelites Are the Children of Abraham 2 Chronicles 20:7/Psalms 105:6/Isaiah 41:8 B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Children of Abraham John 8:39/Romans 9:6, 7/Galations 4:25, 30 C. The Christians Are the Children of Abraham Romans 4:11, 16/Galatians 3:7, 29/Galatians 4:23, 28, 31 The Chosen People A. The Israelites Are the Chosen People Deuteronomy 7:7/Deuteronomy 10:15/ Deuteronomy 14:2/Isaiah 43:20, 21 B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Chosen People Deuteronomy 31:17/ 2 Kings 17:20/ 2 Chronicles 25:7/Psalms 78:59/Jeremiah 6:30/Jeremiah 7:29/ Jeremiah 14:10 C. The Christians Are the Chosen People Colossians 3:12/1 Peter 2:9 The Circumcised A. The Israelites Are the Circumcised Genesis 17:10, 13/ Judges 15:18 B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not the Circumcised Jeremiah 9:25/Romans 2:25, 28/Philippians 3:2 C. The Christians Are the Circumcised Romans 2:29/Philippians 3:3/Colossians 2:11 Israel A. Israel Is Israel B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Israelites Numbers 15:30, 31/Deuteromy 18:19/Acts 3:23/Romans 9:6 C. The Christians Are Israel John 11:50, 51, 52/1 Corinthians 10:1/Galatians 6:15, 16/Ephesians 2:12, 19 Jerusalem A. Jerusalem Is the City and Mother of Israel Psalms 149:2/Isaiah 12:6/Isaiah 49:18, 20, 22/Isaiah 51:18/Lamentations 4:2 B. Jerusalem Is The City and Mother of Christian Galatians 4:26/Hebrews 12:22 The Jews A. Israelites Are Jews Ezra 5:1/Jeremiah 34:8, 9/ Zechariah 8:22, 23 B. Disobedient Israelites Are Not Jews Romans 2:28/Revalation 2:9/Revalation 3:9 C. Christians Are Jews Romans 2:29 The New Covenant A. The New Covenant Is With Israel Jeremiah 31:31, 33 B. The New Covenant Is with the Christians Luke 22:20/1 Corinthians 11:25/2 Corinthians 3:6/Hebrews 8:6, 8, 10 An Olive Tree A. Israel Is An Olive Tree Jeremiah 11:16/ Hosea 14:6 B. The Christians Are An Olive Tree Romans 11:24 Section 2 Old Testament Verses Referring to Israel Which Are Quoted in the New Testament As Referring to the Christians Quote # 1: Leviticus 26:11, 12/Ezra 37:27/2 Corinthians 6:16 Quote # 2: Deuteronomy 30:12-14/Romans 10:6-8 Quote # 3: Deuteronomy 31:6/Hebrews 13:5 Quote # 4: Deuteronomy 32:36/Psalms 135:14/Hebrews 10:30 Quote # 5: Psalms 22:22/Hebrews 2:12 Quote # 6: Psalms 44:22/Romans 8:36 Quote # 7: Psalms 95:7-11/Hebrews 3:7-11 Quote # 8: Psalms 130:8/ Titus 2:14 Quote # 9: Isaiah 28:16/Romans 10:11/Ephesisans 2:20/ 1 Peter 2:6 Quote # 10: Isaiah 49:8/2 Corinthians 6:2 Quote # 11: Isaiah 52:7/Romans 10:15 Quote # 12: Isaiah 54:1/Galatians 4:27 Quote # 13: Jeremiah 31:31-34/Hebrews 8:8-12 Quote # 14: Hosea 1:10 & 2:23/Romans 9:25-26/1 Peter 2:10 Quote # 15: Hosea 13:14/1 Corinthians 15:55 Quote # 16: Joel 2:32/Romans 10:13 Section 3 Old Testament Ethical Commands to Israel Which Are Quoted In the New Testament As Applying to the Church Quote # 1: Exodus 16:18/2 Corinthians 8:15 Quote # 2: Leviticus 11:45 & 19:2/1 Peter 1:16 Quote # 3: Deuteronomy 5:16/Ephesians 6:2-3 Quote # 4: Deuteronomy 17:7, 19:19, 22:24 & 24:7/1 Corinthians 5:13 Quote # 5: Deuteronomy 19:15/2 Corinthians 13:1/1 Timothy 5:19 Quote # 6: Isaiah 35:3/Hebrews 12:12 Quote # 7: Isaiah 48:20 & 52:11/2 Corinthians 6:17 Index

[Daniel Marsh]

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