Discrimination Against Gays - What Would You Base That On?

[Billiards Ball]

1 hour ago, thomas t said:

Hi BB,

actually, it is when there are others who don't receive the same treatment: A husband who married a divorced lady living together with her... never gets banned from church (this is my impression, at least). If a church says we discipline for unrepentant sin ... they should make no exceptions. Otherwise it would be discriminating against LGBT people. Please: Never show partiality against gays and lesbians. Lets keep the peace with them. We need it.

Regards,

Thomas

 

Thomas,

1) Being married is not a sin. 2) My congregation would expel an unrepentant "but we're truly born again!" couple living together outside of marriage, which is a sin. We don't show partiality.

It sounds like you are unconvinced homosexuality is sinful behavior, and that people "are their identity and can't help it". There are people I know who realize their homosexual desires can lead to sin, and who are in prayer and counseling--and seeing great results. There are also people who say, "I am what I am," and live the lifestyle. A Bible-believing church can and should be reaching homosexuals with the gospel. But unfortunately, someone who claims to be born again and also in an unrepentant, sinful lifestyle, brings certain consequences upon themselves. One is expulsion after Matthew 18 has been carefully followed.

[OneLight]

49 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Hi other one,

when man passes a judgement on others just on grounds of their sexual orientation - including partnership - for me, this goes to far. Jesus can, man shoulnd't, in my opinion.

Sexual orientation is part of our personal sphere, man should not pass a judgement based on personality, please. There are limits for judgement. Judge actions - not people (including their personality).

Thomas

You statement made me sit back and wonder if you are trying to conform the church to your understanding or if you are trying to follow scripture?  Jesus was found to associate with sinners as they were the ones that needed salvation, yet, you will not found anywhere in scripture where Jesus claimed it was OK for them to sin.  Do you consider homosexuality a sin?  If so, can sin be part of His body?  The church should be full of sinners as they are the ones who needs to hear His truth above all, but not a member, as been stated.

[thomas t]

2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Do you consider homosexuality a sin? 

Hi Alan,

well, these are the questions I don't want to discuss in this thread. Actually I do want to stay focussed on the topic of discrimination.

You know there is free speech. This entails the opportunity to not state one's opinion, too, I guess.

When you speak out against someone's identity... I don't believe the following to happen:

7 minutes ago, OneLight said:

The church should be full

judgement, I believe, can get too much; let's discuss actions - not identity.

Regards,

Thomas

[thomas t]

...I'm glad it is finally possible to discuss the topic of discrimination against LGBTQ people here on worthy!

It's perfect.

Last thread ended here.

I think this is a great leap forward considering freedom of expression here on Worthy.

Thomas

 

[OneLight]

23 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Hi Alan,

well, these are the questions I don't want to discuss in this thread. Actually I do want to stay focussed on the topic of discrimination.

You know there is free speech. This entails the opportunity to not state one's opinion, too, I guess.

When you speak out against someone's identity... I don't believe the following to happen:

judgement, I believe, can get too much; let's discuss actions - not identity.

Regards,

Thomas

Thomas, you first have to identify what the action is, like homosexuality, in order to discuss what actions must take place.  You even identify an action in your posts, so why not understand where people stand on the matter up front as it will come out in their posts.  You want an open and honest discussion about discrimination, then be open and honest with how you feel.  If you want a generic discussion, you should of started with not including a specific action in your discussion.

[BeauJangles]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

If you want a generic discussion, you should of started with not including a specific action in your discussion.

10 hours ago, thomas t said:

Disclaimer: In this thread I will be discussing discrimination only - as opposed to the question whether or not it is sin to live in a same sex relationship. I want to keep the thread as focussed as possible. Let's discuss discrimination at churches.

 

[thomas t]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

what the action is, like homosexuality

people say it's an action. That doesn't make it an action. It could be identity. I believe sexuality to be part of one's identity.

I'm honestly not so much interested in the matter of homosexuality as such. I have strong feelings with regard to how Christians deal with that. I'm way more interested in the topic of potential homophobia as in homosexuality.

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

You want an open and honest discussion about discrimination, then be open and honest with how you feel. 

let's make this two topics, please. Like this:

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

You want 1) an open and honest discussion about discrimination, 2) then be open and honest with how you feel (about homosexuality as such).

Let's discuss topic No. 1. This thread is about No.1, please.

Thomas

[OneLight]

47 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

 

Then the title of the thread should be just discrimination, not discrimination against gays, don't you think?

[OneLight]

30 minutes ago, thomas t said:

people say it's an action. That doesn't make it an action. It could be identity. I believe sexuality to be part of one's identity.

I'm honestly not so much interested in the matter of homosexuality as such. I have strong feelings with regard to how Christians deal with that. I'm way more interested in the topic of potential homophobia as in homosexuality.

let's make this two topics, please. Like this:

Let's discuss topic No. 1. This thread is about No.1, please.

Thomas

Since I have a hard time separating the two, as discrimination has to have a cause to discriminate against, I will bow out of this thread.  Hope you find the truth you are seeking.

[dr3032]

What exactly makes it a part of a person's identity, and would not this view also then apply to other forms of sexual deviancy?

We can't kick this man out because his dog is much more than his best friend. Neither can we expel this other fellow who really shouldn't be anywhere near the middle school.

There is no "gay" gene. No four year old boy fantasizes about kissing other boys. This is a matter of psychology or "personality," which is something subject to change and definitely NOT set in stone or biology. If a man has anger problems to the point of being violent, and this is a recurring problem, then even if it is a part of his "identity," it does not justify him. If that was how people thought, then everything they do or believe would be okay, because it's just "how they are". Whoops, I kissed this other guy, my bad, that's just how I am.

WELL IT ISN'T HOW YOU SHOULD BE.

If there is an unrepentant sinner, I don't see anything wrong with not including them within the membership. If they wish to change, if they wish to repent and not be that way anymore, then they are more than welcome to. Doing otherwise is just giving permission to the lifestyle.

As another poster said, if a person's spouse commits adultery, then divorce is a viable option, as is remarriage. It's not the same thing as a gay person not doing anything about being gay.