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Is believing in Jesus enough for salvation according to John 3:16?

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15 hours ago, simplejeff said:

So what happens then ,  if  as God's Word Describes,   you should happen to trample under foot the son of man,  and find that "no more sacrifice remains for your sin" ?   What happens then ?   Is God's Word Still Truth ? 

Or will God change it for you because you think He should ?

How can "no more sacrifice remains" apply to born agains? That would logically mean that a Christian, having then lost salvation, CAN NEVER BE SAVED AGAIN, BECAUSE NO MORE SACRIFICE REMAINS FOR THEIR SINS.

Is this your stance, "People can be saved, then lose salvation, but never repent and get saved again"?

Do you see one of the (many) problems with "losing salvation" as a doctrine?

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Shalom,

In the scripture, people could believe in the true gospel and taste the heavenly gift, they were real believers. Gifts came from the holy breath, they were "partakers of the holy ghost": 

Quote

Hebrew 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 
Hebrew 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come
Hebrew 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 

Some believers can really lose their faith, it is a real possibility. In Hebrew 10:26-31, we have the same kind of people, the problem is not the deliberated sin (God or your brother can forgive you through a true repentance), but to fall away from the plan of salvation, the faith. In this case, there is absolutely no repentance, let's give an example If a Jew lives in the light of the gospel and know the power of the holy breath, we can't dismiss the possibility he abandons his faith in Jesus and back to his old state, little by little through a new philosophy. Finally, this person could believe that sacrifices can save him for sins. A true believer who does something willingly, break the law, can die too, when he return in the condition he had before.

A christian who sin and try to change, can be saved. But whoever lost completely his savour will be thrown away, it is almost logic. Jesus was speaking to the multitudes and the disciples Mathew 5:13  Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men (Luke 14:34-35).

A non-believer is not the salt. If the salt is the true believer in the mind of Jesus, he can really lose his savour. we can also read 2 Peter 2:20-22.

May the Eternal guides us.

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16 minutes ago, Coemgen said:

Shalom,

In the scripture, people could believe in the true gospel and taste the heavenly gift, they were real believers. Gifts came from the holy breath, they were "partakers of the holy ghost": 

Some believers can really lose their faith, it is a real possibility. In Hebrew 10:26-31, we have the same kind of people, the problem is not the deliberated sin (God or your brother can forgive you through a true repentance), but to fall away from the plan of salvation, the faith. In this case, there is absolutely no repentance, let's give an example If a Jew lives in the light of the gospel and know the power of the holy breath, we can't dismiss the possibility he abandons his faith in Jesus and back to his old state, little by little through a new philosophy. Finally, this person could believe that sacrifices can save him for sins. A true believer who does something willingly, break the law, can die too, when he return in the condition he had before.

A christian who sin and try to change, can be saved. But whoever lost completely his savour will be thrown away, it is almost logic. Jesus was speaking to the multitudes and the disciples Mathew 5:13  Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men (Luke 14:34-35).

A non-believer is not the salt. If the salt is the true believer in the mind of Jesus, he can really lose his savour. we can also read 2 Peter 2:20-22.

May the Eternal guides us.

I think there can be a misconception about whether repentance is required of salvation. There is nothing we can do in the affirmative or in the negative concerning salvation. We are, however, responsible for our repentance. When verse 6 speaks of falling away, it is not simply talking about a sin. It is speaking of an abandonment of the rewards allotted to those who would receive them by following closely to the Savior. If that occurs, there is no room for repentance. They have gotten so far away from the Savior that to return to follow Him would mean a renewal of salvation for which there is no additional sacrifice. When you look at repentance in the vein of sanctification rather than salvation, there is no conflict with this passage.

Looking to the tabernacle as the model for salvation and sanctification, you will see the brazen altar in the outer court as a symbol of salvation. However, in order to enter the holy of holies, the priest must wash at the brazen laver, symbolic of repentance and sanctification. If someone who has repented by way of true godly sorrow and has been walking by faith abandons that way of living, the passage in Hebrews is saying that they have exited the holy of holies and cannot re-enter because there is no longer a sacrifice for them. They have not lost salvation, but they have lost their rewards. We must never confuse sanctification (that requires our cooperation) with salvation. Otherwise, we would all surely lose our salvation.

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On 6/26/2019 at 8:23 AM, Billiards Ball said:

How can "no more sacrifice remains" apply to born agains? That would logically mean that a Christian, having then lost salvation, CAN NEVER BE SAVED AGAIN, BECAUSE NO MORE SACRIFICE REMAINS FOR THEIR SINS.

This is what is written,  and verified,  in line with all Scripture.  (NOT "logically" as if by man's logic - God is not subject to man's anything,  including not subject to man's logic ---- even mankind's BEST WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE is foolishness leading to destruction,  as written in Scripture,  Yahuweh's Word, TRUTH.)

 

It is woefully grievous and breaks out hearts that so many people are deceived continually,  and that even some who once had steadfast faith turned away because of some trouble or test,  and failed to endure to the end.

"BE TERRIFIED"  lest anyone (else) does not make it to the end!   (written somewhere in Hebrews, etc)

 

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5 minutes ago, NickyLouse said:

Otherwise, we would all surely lose our salvation.

This is not a valid statement,  and is not found in Scripture.  The previous arguments before this in the post are subject to serious testing by Scripture to see if they are true or not.

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6 minutes ago, NickyLouse said:

They have not lost salvation, but they have lost their rewards.

If there remains no longer any sacrifice for their sins,   then death is what they get as the penalty for sin, as stated throughout Scripture.    They do not lose their rewards only,  but their life. (there remains no way left for them to be forgiven of their sin).

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1 minute ago, simplejeff said:
6 minutes ago, NickyLouse said:

Otherwise, we would all surely lose our salvation.

This is not a valid statement,  and is not found in Scripture.  The previous arguments before this in the post are subject to serious testing by Scripture to see if they are true or not.

My contention is not that anyone can ever lose their salvation. The only way that one could possibly lose it or undo the atoning sacrifice of Christ is if they had something to do with their salvation in the first place. We don't have anything to do with our salvation. Only after we have been saved can we do anything good.

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3 minutes ago, simplejeff said:
9 minutes ago, NickyLouse said:

They have not lost salvation, but they have lost their rewards.

If there remains no longer any sacrifice for their sins,   then death is what they get as the penalty for sin, as stated throughout Scripture.    They do not lose their rewards only,  but their life. (there remains no way left for them to be forgiven of their sin).

You are reading that into the text. That is not what it says. It says that they can no longer be renewed unto repentance - not salvation. You can only introduce salvation into the passage if you believe that your repentance had something to do with your salvation.

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14 hours ago, simplejeff said:

This is what is written,  and verified,  in line with all Scripture.  (NOT "logically" as if by man's logic - God is not subject to man's anything,  including not subject to man's logic ---- even mankind's BEST WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE is foolishness leading to destruction,  as written in Scripture,  Yahuweh's Word, TRUTH.)

 

It is woefully grievous and breaks out hearts that so many people are deceived continually,  and that even some who once had steadfast faith turned away because of some trouble or test,  and failed to endure to the end.

"BE TERRIFIED"  lest anyone (else) does not make it to the end!   (written somewhere in Hebrews, etc)

 

Man didn't invent logic--God did, and God is never illogical.

Many fine Christians affirm eternal security. Many fine Christians believe a Christian may lose salvation, then repent to find it again--although I would say repentance moves someone towards salvation and is not salvation. I say the Christian has eternal security.

But your belief that a Christian who slips up not only is lost but can only go to Hell and never find grace a second time is illogical and against all we know about the kindness and mercy of God. How can you read something like the parable of the prodigal son and believe that kind of nonsense?

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Posted (edited)

SHalom,

@NickyLouse : Thank you for your commentary, but the destruction of a reward does not match with the context :

Hebrew 10:28  He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 
Hebrew 10:29  Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The faith in Jesus is not the certitude in a "knowledge" (Jesus died for us), but as I said, it is connected to the word "obedience".

@Billiards Ball :

Shalom. Yes, a believer can receive forgiveness after believing in Jesus (Eternal knows his heart and his behavior). However, a believer can also lose his salvation, the parable of the prodigal son can be understood like "a jew" who opens his eyes in Yeshoua (the chance for salvation) for the first time.

For example, if a group of Israeli did not respect his father, they can back to him through Jesus (the feast in the parable) and keeps the commandments in the manner of the first son who did not sin (Luke 15:29). Sincerely.

Edited by Coemgen
spelling mistake

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