How serious is...

[Jayne]

1 hour ago, Melinda12 said:

Would you condemn someone at your church if they were living with their partner without marriage? 

I would not condemn them, as in looking down my nose at them.  I would, however, pray that someone in the church who is wise, loving, and competent would counsel them as to why this is not a good thing.  

 

1 hour ago, Melinda12 said:

I heard of a young couple who dated 6 months then married. 12 months later divorce. Because she discovered too late he was an alcoholic and took drugs. Only living together after marriage revealed his hiding places for bottles and pills. 

I will say this.  Far too many women want the romance and don't look for danger spots in the relationship.

6 months?  She had no clue he drank or took drugs?  I know alcoholics can hide these things.  At the same time, in today's culture there are FAR to many terrible things going on in people's lives that it behooves a strong and in-depth look into the life of the person one is going to marry.  

Fornication is wrong because it is a devilish imitation of what God desires for a man and a woman. It's no different than all the other imitations that the devil presents to us.

•  God created music [see Genesis].  The devil made music an unholy thing falsely "imitating" the holiness of God and deceiving the world..
•  God approved of dancing and rejoicing.  The devil made dancing an unholy thing.
•  God approved of plants and more for medicinal purposes.  The devil has made drugs an unholy thing.

God created man and woman for sexual union in the confines of marriage for a reason.  The devil has made sex an unholy thing - mere about body parts and has falsely imitated God's intent and deceived the world.

Fornication - in all it's forms - involves a holy act that God created but abuses it to the point that the holiness is gone and all that is left is the urge to be pleased.

[The_Patriot21]

You don't need to have sex, or even live together to get to know someone better....

[Jayne]

21 minutes ago, RTCarroll said:

 

What is a Scriptural marriage?  Is a license from a government required for a Scriptural marriage?

No, it isn't, but God said to obey our laws and our government.  They require it.  We should obey that and obeying that, we obey God.  I think the government should never has gotten into the marriage business.  But they did [for reasons unimportant here].

Getting a license is not sinful, so ergo that law should be obeyed until it is changed.

[Guest]

Look around your churches. Older generations will be long married. But many will have children and certainly grandchildren who are living in relationships without marriage. Devout christians will have to do an awful lot of condemning to hell! It won't make them very popular nor make those families very eager to attend church. 

It is modern life. Young couples move in together then save up and get married when good and ready. They are in stable loving relationships. Try preaching and criticizing and telling them what the Bible says and see what happens. 

Circumstances are what matter too. Whether they love Jesus is what matters. 

[Guest]

Circumstances. 

I heard of a lovely Christian church going lady. Married, 3 kids. Husband cheated, divorced him. She got the house and custody of kids. 

5 years passed. Lonely, she fell in love. Felt pressure not to just live together. Got married as she so loved him.

Turned out a real gambler. Gambled away her house. She was left penniless when he died suddenly. His debts then came to light. 

By marrying him she handed him power over all her life's savings. So does this satisfy self righteous christians? Her plight was so sad she died of wirry and poverty. 

Individual circumstances. Not religious unbending rules. 

I don't know the answers either. But love and understanding surely are the path to the way God wants. The Bible guides us. But we must use our brains and be careful. Take it to prayer. Humans are frail, we fall in love. God understands. He is the judge, not you or i.  

Edited July 28, 2019 by Melinda12

[Sower]

8 minutes ago, Melinda12 said:

Look around your churches. Older generations will be long married. But many will have children and certainly grandchildren who are living in relationships without marriage. Devout christians will have to do an awful lot of condemning to hell! It won't make them very popular nor make those families very eager to attend church. 

It is modern life. Young couples move in together then save up and get married when good and ready. They are in stable loving relationships. Try preaching and criticizing and telling them what the Bible says and see what happens. 

Circumstances are what matter too. Whether they love Jesus is what matters. 

Sounds to me like you have adapted to the times, Melinda.
Marriage really is a lifetime work! Shouldn't start it taking the easy/worldly way.
Accept the waiting and hardships up front, save the fun for later, to strengthen the bond.
You do believe a marriage should be based on the word, right?
God has not changed His plan for us in marriage.
He told/showed us the best way.
God's way's are not man's ways..

[Jubilea]

I guess the question for me is not as much "how serious is fornication" as it is "how serious is disobeying God?"

[BeauJangles]

17 minutes ago, Melinda12 said:

Circumstances. 

I heard of a lovely Christian church going lady. Married, 3 kids. Husband cheated, divorced him. She got the house and custody of kids. 

5 years passed. Lonely, she fell in love. Felt pressure not to just live together. Got married as she so loved him.

Turned out a real gambler. Gambled away her house. She was left penniless when he died suddenly. His debts then came to light. 

By marrying him she handed him power over all her life's savings. So does this satisfy self righteous christians? Her plight was so sad she died of wirry and poverty. 

Individual circumstances. Not religious unbending rules. 

I don't know the answers either. But love and understanding surely are the path to the way God wants. The Bible guides us. But we must use our brains and be careful. Take it to prayer. Humans are frail, we fall in love. God understands. He is the judge, not you or i.  

Sorry, @Melinda12. This is your thread and all. I suppose you have the right to all your observances, but this is veering way = Just saying. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by BeauJangles

[RTCarroll]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

No, it isn't, but God said to obey our laws and our government.  They require it.  We should obey that and obeying that, we obey God.  I think the government should never has gotten into the marriage business.  But they did [for reasons unimportant here].

Getting a license is not sinful, so ergo that law should be obeyed until it is changed.

I do agree it is not sinful, but does God require.

Look at what marriage has become under the government.  People being married multiple times, some people as many as 5 and 6 marriages.  Marriages that last a few weeks, not to mention the latest inclusion of same sex couples. 

Could a service with your church and your pastor not suffice, take the government out of it and make it between God and the couple. 

[GandalfTheWise]

4 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

It could be their circumstances that mean finances or other practical considerations mean they have delayed getting married. It could be they think it is sensible to spend a year or two getting to know each other before making the biggest most serious legally binding contract two people can ever make. Romance and love are good and natural. But marriage is not to be entered into hastily. 

Anytime anyone forms a serious relationship with someone (including sexual relations, living together, and legally sharing assets), they are fully exposed to most of the pitfalls of a bad marriage even if they haven't had a wedding or formally married.   STDs, unplanned pregnancy, emotional baggage if the partner turns out to be abusive, exposure to illegal activities of the partner, fraud, and pretty much anything else can hit you with long term consequences that can hinder subsequent relationships and change your quality of life for a long time.  Planning on using living together as a test run for marriage simply increases the odds of having more baggage in your life before you find a person you do want to spend the rest of your life with.

When push comes to shove, the Christian perspective is to do your due diligence before getting involved in sex, romance, and love and marriage.  Get to know their friends, family, listen to your friends and family, watch them closely, and take any red flags very seriously.   Unless one is so emotionally shallow that sex, romance, and love can be turned on and off like choosing what TV show to watch, having sex, romance, and love with someone is a large part of the emotional and spiritual union aspect of a marriage.  It is something that ties us deeply to another person and it is usually only with a great deal of pain that we untie ourselves from that other person.  Forming such a bond with sex, romance, and love is NOT the way to determine if someone is good marriage material.  Indeed, that initial infatuation of romance and love causes many people to overlook a lot of red flags and get heavily involved with people that they'd never think twice about if they weren't in a hormone induced drunkenness of lovey-dovey feelings.   The main effect of the Christian perspective of due diligence before getting involved is that it increases the odds of having a lifetime happy marriage which will be a blessing to both partners, their friends, and families.  It doesn't guarantee things will be great, but it improves the odds by immediately eliminating poor choices for a mate without consequence and reducing the baggage you carry into marriage.

I'm now in my late 50s and married for over 30 years.  I've observed a lot of marriages in my life.  Those that end typically fit two categories.  The first is that due diligence was not done and one partner married someone with several red flags that their friends and family tried to warn them about or they ignored those red flags thinking love would make it all work out.  The second is partners that didn't take care of their marriage and failed to continually nourish and care for it.  All of us change over time and our marriage must adapt and change with it.

One of my biggest frustrations in western culture is the level of generational isolation I see.  I often do figurative face-palms whenever I hear or read relationship "advice" from teens and young adults given to their peers.  It's basically the blind leading the blind setting themselves up for heartbreak and failure.  If you want to learn about how to make a relationship work, go to a senior center, find a widow or widower with prominent pictures of their family, their wedding picture, and pictures of their spouse, and ask them about their marriage and family.  Find people who made it work for decades and learn from them.  They'll love to talk about those things because they were such a huge and fulfilling part of their lives.  They'll be able to give you a complete and detailed rundown of every annoying and frustrating and stupid thing that person ever did, and they'd give anything to just have them back to hold and hug for one day.  That's what a good marriage is about.   It's about two imperfect people that somehow manage not to strangle each other and yet become an indispensable  part of each other's lives.