You cannot get closer to God than you concept of God will allow

[Pekoudah]

3 hours ago, George said:

Shalom everyone,

I was listening to an interesting sermon this Shabbat and the quote I'd like to explore is this ...

"You cannot get closer to God than you concept of God will allow!"

What does this mean .... if you're perception of God is a hard father figure ... your perception of God as a loving Father is warped ... and thus, will prevent how close you will get to your Heavenly Father.

So I'd like to explore the one place in the Bible that God describes Himself ...

Exo 34:5  The LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 
Exo 34:6  The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 
Exo 34:7  keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.” 

So we have the description of God from God ... starts with MERCY ... then GRACE ... PATIENT, abounding in never ending love ... faithfulness ... forgiveness ... finally justice.

Have you ever considered if your "perception of God" may limit your "understanding" of God?  I'm curious.

God bless,

George

I think this is true. If we limit God in any way...will that not affect what we ask of Him?

 

Can we really do ALL things through the power of Christ? Really? Then I won't be offended at the miraculous things that Jesus commands of me..to be holy, perfect, to love as He does....etc With Christ all these are not only possible but desirable through Him.

Jesus said that we should raise the dead! My, what an expectation. I think we all have a point where we think...now that's too far. But is anything impossible for God?

 

So yes we tend to limit God to what we want rather than what He wants. He is an awesome God and it's hard at times to keep up with Him...even conceptually!

 

[George]

20 minutes ago, Pekoudah said:

I think this is true. If we limit God in any way...will that not affect what we ask of Him?

Absolutely ... and I think we should explore this as well.  If our perceptions of God, limit how effective God is in our lives?  And so, is this a fundamental problem of "faith" or is it a problem of understanding who God is?  Or perhaps a confluence of different things ... let's definitely explore this.

[Neighbor]

4 hours ago, George said:

if you're perception of God is a hard father figure ... your perception of God as a loving Father is warped ... and thus, will prevent how close you will get to your Heavenly Father.

Gee no. I sure don't think that is so. A hard, or serious, or stern even demanding of obedience, father does not mean one (The father) that is not loved by his child.

For love does not prevent discipline or even hard task mastering from/by a parent. I am rather satisfied deeply that God is not my best friend, as in the one that tolerates all sort of folly by me, but instead is my maker and who loves me from even before I did love myself.

"What A Friend We Have In Jesus"  to me is not the same as what a friend my assigned sober driver is tonight as I go about imbibing. Jesus is the friend that says  via God the Holy Spirit, remember the last time you did that, why don't we have some time together at something else and give your guardain angels a bit of an easy evening too?

To me parents who think they are their kids best friends are robbers of their kids best welfare too. My God is sovereign, I am to fear God for God is all sovereign ( and I am not ). I do come to God in  trembling if I have good sense about me. He is not a casual thing. He is creator! He made me for His pleasure to worship Him alone.

I am to do what is pleasing to Him, not ritual, not robotic either, but by His enabling of respect and absolute obedience without injection of my own  turning of His command to embrace my will. God is just, He is merciful, He is exacting as well. Even His prophets have suffered  by their  injection of their own will into His commands of them. So, I should be aware and careful even as I am blessed and tolerated. For I will be of account to  God.

Does that make me further from God? No, it makes me see need to know more, to  be aware of my own inability, and to appreciate Him all the more for it. He has me covered, literally has my eternal soul covered so that I am seen as acceptable among that which is perfect. Wow that is a feat, eh? He has reconciled the impossible.

How much closer can I be than to know what God has allowed me to see of Him,  even in my own foolishness and serious limitation?

[Henry_iain]

I'm enjoying this thread. It touches on things that are so relevant to me personally and so it could be beneficial to my own relationship with God. Here are a few of my thoughts:

My father definitely shaped my picture of what God is like. And because my relationship with my dad has been a little tense at times, and I always felt a distance from him, this is also how I saw God to some extent. I certainly never talked to my dad about God in spite of him being a theologian. He is and expert in rhetoric so I always felt like he was speaking to me as a student and not as a son. Then I got saved (a friend from school led me to the Lord) and joined a church that was completely different from what I have ever experienced at home and it changed the way I saw God completely. I saw his goodness and severity. His love and his discipline. And I felt freer than I ever have before. Not that my image of God is what it should be. I still misinterpret His character sometimes and at times I do not fully trust him. But the point is the more I realise how awesome He is, the more it sets me free, strengthens my faith and corrects whatever still needs correction. 

Also, I have been working with children from broken families as a social worker and as part of church ministries. In my experience, when it come right down to it, the father's behavior or the father's complete absence causes the most damage, especially to a child's understanding of God. With such children, their image of God is tainted and they tend to either rebel or become completely withdrawn. I often think that if someone would just father them properly, many of these kids would be able to overcome their struggles and become amazing children of God. I think that's why I want to be a social worker in the first place. To make sure that happens 

 I also read I Dared to Call Him Father and I absolutely loved it. I learned a lot form that.

[George]

This is another fork in this concept we should explore.  How important the roles of us as FATHERS in shaping our kids faith. 

This is something to really grab hold of ... and I believe if us (men) grabbed hold of this ... it would also help our wives faith as well.

 

[missmuffet]

6 hours ago, George said:

Shalom everyone,

I was listening to an interesting sermon this Shabbat and the quote I'd like to explore is this ...

"You cannot get closer to God than you concept of God will allow!"

What does this mean .... if you're perception of God is a hard father figure ... your perception of God as a loving Father is warped ... and thus, will prevent how close you will get to your Heavenly Father.

So I'd like to explore the one place in the Bible that God describes Himself ...

Exo 34:5  The LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 
Exo 34:6  The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 
Exo 34:7  keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.” 

So we have the description of God from God ... starts with MERCY ... then GRACE ... PATIENT, abounding in never ending love ... faithfulness ... forgiveness ... finally justice.

Have you ever considered if your "perception of God" may limit your "understanding" of God?  I'm curious.

God bless,

George

I think many are looking at God as a harsh authority figure. Shaking His finger at them. Perhaps it has to do with their earthly father who was unloving and stern. I think many will wonder why they did not love God more than they did when they see Him face to face and the tremendous love He has for them. 

[Neighbor]

5 minutes ago, George said:

This is another fork in this concept we should explore.  How important the roles of us as FATHERS in shaping our kids faith. 

This is something to really grab hold of ... and I believe if us (men) grabbed hold of this ... it would also help our wives faith as well.

  

Well yes.  I do believe the children also need to hear of the world and it's beliefs from us fathers too. Otherwise what we have taught will be successfully challenged by institutions of learning when they are away from us and they will not be prepared for the unsaved world's views. wish I had better realized that long ago.

 

[ayin jade]

4 hours ago, maryjayne said:

I found i had to start my journey by forgiving my earthly father, which then freed my heart to get to know God as a father. And God has healed my pain with my earthly father - its as if the pain never happened. Its wonderful and blessed to have the past erased not from my memory but from my heart.

There is so much about His Love in scripture, isnt there.

Romans  8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
 

[ayin jade]

There is a trite saying "dont put God in a box." I think a lot of people do that. 

My relationship with Him as a believer has always been very personal, very one on one. I dont think I ever limited Him in my perception of Him. Might have to ponder that awhile.

[George]

9 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

There is a trite saying "dont put God in a box." I think a lot of people do that. 

My relationship with Him as a believer has always been very personal, very one on one. I dont think I ever limited Him in my perception of Him. Might have to ponder that awhile.

... that's the point of the thread.  To explore our own understandings of God ... and how our perceptions may be skewed.  

I read an interesting Open God's Love Letter that I was forwarded.

Quote

Open God’s Love Letter to You!

Dear Friend,

I love you! (John 3:16)  I created you in my image (Genesis 1:27) and I called you “very good” (Genesis 1:31).  I knit you together in your mother’s womb (Psalm 139:13).  I know the number of the hairs on your head (Matthew 10:30) and I am familiar with all your ways (Psalm 139:3).  My precious thoughts of you are as countless as the sand on the seashore (Psalm 139:17-18).

I am Love (1 John 4:16) and the greatest commandment that I have for you is that you love (Matthew 22:37-40).  My love is made complete in you when you receive my love, love me, and love others (1 John 4:7-21).  To show you how to live this life of love I’ve given you Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17), laws that honor me and are good and pleasing to you (Psalm 119).

But you were born in sin, separated from my love, (Psalm 51:5) and though you’ve tried to be good you’ve missed the mark of my holiness (1 John 1:8).  You’ve hurt others and you’ve hurt yourself (Romans 2:9).  Most of all, your sins are against me (Psalm 51:4).  You’ve hurt me (Luke 19:41) and angered me (Romans 2:8).  I am the Lord (Exodus 6:2), the King of Kings (1 Timothy 6:15), and the Righteous Judge (1 Peter 4:5) and it is a terrible thing to come under my judgment (Hebrews 10:31).

So to fear me is the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs 1:7).  But you don’t need to remain afraid of me; if you rely on me then my perfect love will remove all of your fear (1 John 4:18).  I am a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger and abounding in love and faithfulness (Exodus 34:6).

Now, in the person of Jesus Christ, I knock on the door of your heart, waiting for you to let me in (Revelation 3:20).  Open the door and I will forgive your sins (Acts 10:43) and choose not to remember them anymore (Isaiah 43:25).  I will teach you how to live your daily life with me in the kingdom of the heavens (Matthew 4:17).  I will adopt you into my family (Ephesians 1:5) and lavish on you my fatherly love (1John 3:1).  Then you will marvel that I chose you to be my child (Ephesians 1:11-12) and I drew you to myself (John 6:44).

You see I’ve loved you from the beginning, long before you loved me (1 John 4:19).  I sent my son Jesus, the exact representation of my being (Hebrews 1:3), to die on the cross in your place (Romans 5:8), to take upon Himself the punishment that you deserved (Isaiah 53:5), and to take away your sin (John 1:29).  For you the mighty Lion sacrificed his life as an innocent Lamb (Revelation 5:5-6).  So you can see that in Jesus I, your Lord and Master, have come to serve you! (John 13:13-14)

When you are “born again” by my Holy Spirit (John 3:3) then you become a new person (2 Corinthians 5:17) with a new heart (Ezekiel 36:26), a new self (Ephesians 4:24), and a new life (Romans 6:4).  You have my precious righteousness as a gift (Romans 5:19).  Your body becomes a temple for my Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19) and you become a saint (Ephesians 1:18).

Indeed, I will make your righteousness to shine like the dawn (Psalm 37:6).  You will be a crown of glory in my hand (Isaiah 62:3), reflecting my likeness with ever-increasing glory (2 Corinthians 4:18).  I am faithful to help you to be holy (1 Thessalonians 5:24) and to complete the good work I’ve started in you (Philippians 1:6).

So stand firm in my grace (Galatians 5:1) and fight the good fight of faith (1 Timothy 6:12).  When you are tempted to sin, look for the way out that I provide (1 Corinthians 10:13).  Resist the devil and submit to me (James 4:7); turn away from sin and toward the good that I provide (Romans 12:21).  And when you fail remember that I am waiting for you with open arms, quick to forgive you and to give you another chance (Luke 15:11-31).  Satan will accuse you, but call out to Jesus and I will defend you and enable you to overcome him (Revelation 12:10-11).  I will rescue your true self from sin (Romans 7:14-25) and condemnation (Romans 8:1).

Remember that the pleasures of sin are fleeting (Hebrews 11:25) and if you find your delight in me instead then you will see that I give you the desires of your heart (Psalm 37:4) – eternal pleasures even! (Psalm 16:11) – and I do far more for you than you can imagine (Ephesians 3:20).  Whatever you need, look to me and I will provide it (Philippians 4:19).  I will give you love, joy, peace, and all the fruit of my Spirit to fill your soul and for you to share with others (Galatians 5:22-23).

Since I care so much for you don’t worry about getting your needs met and don’t worry about tomorrow (Matthew 6:25-34).  Just as I look after the little sparrow so will I look after you (Matthew 10:26-31).  So give your burdens to me and let me give you rest (Matthew 11:28).  Talk to me when you’re anxious and let me put you at peace (Philippians 4:6).

No matter what happens your soul will be safe in my hands (John 10:28).  Like a mother bird I’ll cover you with my feathers in my nest (Psalm 91:1-4).  When rivers of difficulty roar you will not be swept away.  When fiery trials blaze you will not be burned (Isaiah 43:2).  When war breaks out I will be your fortress, an ever-present help in trouble (Psalm 46).  Even when you face death I will take you by the hand and lead you on the joyful path to eternal life (Psalm 16:9-11).

So don’t be afraid when you walk through the valley of the shadow of death because I am your Good Shepherd and I will be with you, comforting you and protecting you on your journey (Psalm 23), and I will never leave you (Hebrews 13:5).

When enemies come against you I will fight for you (Psalm 44:7).  Even when you do what is right people will insult you, criticize you, and mistreat you, but I will bless you (Matthew 5:11).  Even when you trust your father and mother they may forsake you, but I will receive you (Psalm 27:10).  So if you find yourself poor remember that I’ve blessed you with true riches (Luke 6:20).  And if you find yourself last in line remember that with me those who are last will be first! (Matthew 20:16).  Yes, I will raise you up and exalt you when you are humble before me (Matthew 23:12).

When you are brokenhearted I will draw close to you (Psalm 34:18) and cry with you (John 11:35).  I’ll collect all your tears in my bottle and record each one in my book (Psalm 56:8).  Like a shepherd holding his lamb, I’ll carry you close to my heart (Isaiah 40:11).  I’ll comfort you in your time of sadness (Matthew 5:4), turning your mourning into gladness (Jeremiah 31:13) and your weakness into strength (2 Corinthians 12:9-10).  I will put a happy new song in your mouth (Psalm 40:3) and give you a beautiful new name (Isaiah 62:2).

Even the difficulty and pain you experience can be to your benefit if you endure these hardships as loving discipline from me, opportunities for you to be trained in the ways of righteousness and peace (Hebrews 12: 6-11).  Always remember that when you love me and seek my purposes that all things will work together for your good (Romans 8:28).

I am for you and not against you! (Romans 8:31)  If I have been misrepresented to you by religious people who claim to know me but don’t,  (John 8:41-44) then know that I am against those hypocrites (Matthew 23).  And if your earthly father has not shown you my fatherly love, then please realize that I offer you more than he ever could (Matthew 7:9-11).  I am the perfect Father (Matthew 5:48), the Father from whom all true fatherhood derives its name (Ephesians 3:15), and I love to give you good gifts (Matthew 7:11).

With me on your side your future is bright and full of hope!  My plans are to prosper you and not to harm you (Jeremiah 29:11), to give you abundant life (John 10:10) now and forever (John 3:36).  So call to me and I will answer you (Jeremiah 33:3); listen and you will hear my voice directing you (Isaiah 30:21); tune into your heart and you will sense my instructions (Psalm 16:7).  My Holy Spirit will be your Counselor (John 14:15,26; 16:7).  So don’t walk alone; walk in my Spirit (Galatians 5:25), trust in me and I will direct your path (Proverbs 3:4-5) and bless you wonderfully (Ephesians 1:3).

I have gifted you to serve me in my kingdom (Matthew 25:14-23) and I want to make you great! (Psalm 18:35).  So discover your gift and use it in the body of Christ (Romans 12:4-8).  I have important work for you to do, work that I will help you to accomplish by working alongside you (Haggai 2:4).  Together we can accomplish great dreams (Mark 10:27) and move mountains! (Matthew 17:20).

You are the light of the world so shine my light to those who are lost (Matthew 5:14).  Show your love for me by loving those who are in need (1 John 3:17-18).  You serve me when you feed the hungry, provide shelter for the homeless, clothe the poor, care for the sick, and visit those in prison (Matthew 25:34-40).  And always be prepared to talk to the hopeless in a respectful way about the good news of my grace demonstrated in Jesus (1 Peter 3:15).  Do these things for people from every nation and every language, training them to follow Jesus (Matthew 28:19-20).

Jesus wants to embrace you!

But you’re not just my servant: you’re my friend! (John 15:15)  More than that you’re my beloved child! (1 John 3:1) You’re precious and honored in my sight (Isaiah 43:4) and I rejoice over you with singing! (Zephaniah 3:17).

I delight in you like a bridegroom for his bride (Isaiah 62:5).  I will always love you! (Jeremiah 31:3) and nothing can ever change that! (Romans 8:38-39).

One day soon in Jesus I will return to bring you and all my followers to the heavenly home that I have prepared for you (John 14:2).  I will wipe away your tears and take away your pain forever (Revelation 21:3-4) and I will reward you for all the good that you’ve done in my name (Revelation 22:12).  Heaven will be more beautiful and wonderful than you can imagine (Revelation 21:10-27).  There we will sing to God with angels (Revelation 7:9-17), feast at banquets (Matthew 22:14), and rule over cities (Luke 19:11-26).

Love, God