Husband too smart to believe

[SurrenderedWife]

I came back to Jesus about 5 weeks ago. My unsaved husband contemplated if he should divorce me before we start a family and get our kids involved in what was already a conflicted marriage.
A couple weeks ago, he committed to staying with me and actually said he prefers me being a Christian because he saw 1) I complain much less 2)I seem happier 3)Not suicidal or anxious 4)We no longer get into arguments over things we used to since we got together. He watched a very compelling history of believers, new world order bible versions, Bible movies etc. and asked me about church, hearing very compelling things... BUT his intellect is too sharp for me now.

3 years ago I was able to debate him on over 100 different reasons he was convinced the Bible wasn't true, but he was not convinced then despite what I thought were incredibly inspired responses on my part. Eventually he convinced ME to stop believing for 3 most awful years where everything was falling apart in our home and our lives (despite us living incredibly healthy lifestyles). I turned to Jesus in desperation, but he thinks he's been improving and doing well for himself so had no such need. The compelling case for the Bible, after countless hours of searching for God, and personal experiences of God's voice and my transformation are enough for me to believe without needing to have all my questions answered. Not so for my husband. He still presents thorough intellectual challenges to the Bible that no one around us is willing or able to take on.

His heart wants to believe, but his ravenous intellect is stopping him. I'm still trying to find answers because I love him and don't want him to perish, and he reiterates that he doesn't feel preached at all and I haven't put him off. Whenever I found an answer though, he just tears it apart and makes all preachers seem like liars. :( He seems to have very good discernment when it comes to Godly and ungodly things, and with his many abilities could be one of the greatest men of God of our age. It seems a waste for him to not believe before rapture, or to die before saving and edifying many souls for the Lord....instead standing before the throne with heavy condemnation for continually rejecting God's call. I can't find any advice on how to bring a sharp-witted sceptical husband to the Lord. Could anyone advise?

I could paste the 9 pages of 'problems' he has with the Bible, but may bring them up in 'Apologetics' one at a time.

 

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been praying throughout, including before, mid and post-conversations. Others are praying too.

Edited August 25, 2019 by SurrenderedWife

[ayin jade]

Step 1 - Recognize that it isnt up to you to save him. It is the work of the Lord. You dont need to win debates or convince him by being smarter than his arguments. 

Step 2 - Pray for him and get others to pray for him. 

Step 3 - Show him through your life the reality of Jesus

Step 4 - Answer his questions as best as you can. Pray as you speak and rely on the Lord to give you the words. Remember that the Lord can use your words no matter how poorly spoken, to change his heart. 

Step 5 - Keep praying. 

[AnOrangeCat]

I'm guessing your husband is interested in things like evidence. A lot of people practically treat science as a religion. People like that need to realize that the scientific community isn't pure. Personal agendas get in the way of scientific pursuit. Sometimes the scientists and educational institutions of the day are dead wrong and stubborn about it. A case I often bring up is Joseph Lister, who's considered the father of modern surgery. Back in his day his peers in the scientific community ridiculed him for telling them to wash their hands and sterilize their tools. People like that really bring 1 Corinthians 1:26 and onward to mind where it talks about God making the wise seem foolish.

[GandalfTheWise]

19 minutes ago, SurrenderedWife said:

I can't find any advice on how to bring a sharp-witted sceptical husband to the Lord. Could anyone advise?

There are a range of Christians beliefs.  Some of these are essential core beliefs focused primarily on Christ's atoning work that changes us.  These are things that the vast majority of Christians believe though they may use different terminology at times.  However, there are many non-essential beliefs that are more conjectural in nature and really do little more than distract us from the essential core beliefs.   Then there are some Christians who fervently believe some things that few Christians do.   If you get diverted onto non-essential or fringe beliefs that Christians themselves cannot convince other Christians of, it's just going to be a distraction for someone looking at Christianity.  

For example, there is a small group of Christians who believe that taking the Bible literally means that they must believe that the earth is flat.  For them, it is not the shape of the earth that matters but that if the Bible says it that they must believe that.  Some are convinced satellite photos and other such things are part of a satanic plot to discredit the Bible so people won't believe the Bible or what it says about Jesus Christ.  A few of these people cannot let this go because they are convinced that any reference to globe shaped earth is a direct attack on the authority of scripture.  Most attempts to use "science" to prove the earth is a globe are seen as evidence that science cannot be trusted in any way.  For these Christians, the shape of the earth is a critical matter of faith and a proof of belief in scripture.  However, telling an unbeliever that the Bible teaches both that the earth is flat and that Jesus is the only way to God is a big and unnecessary distraction.

I note one phrase you used was "new world order Bible versions".  There is a group of Christians (outside the mainstream) who believe that God's Word has only been properly preserved in one English version (usually some iteration of the King James Version).  Many of them see the majority of modern translations as a satanic attack to lessen God's Word.  Overall, they dismiss the majority of Bibles around the world because in their opinion the wrong ancient Greek manuscripts are being used as a basis for translation.  It's a long set of details I won't get into here, but the majority of Christians around the world accept most translations as being authoritative for matters of faith and practice.  However, for those Christians for whom a particular translation is the only true Word of God, this is a critical matter of faith.   The problem comes when an unbeliever listening to them hears reason after reason why the actual historical record of Bible manuscripts is untrustworthy and that there is over a thousand year gap between the original writings and existing good ones.

I will make one blunt point here.  Our faith in God is ultimately trust and confidence in Him.  It is not eliminating doubts over a series of intellectual statements about Christianity.   Solid trust, confidence, and assurance in God comes over months, years, and decades of walking with God and seeing Him work in our lives and in the lives of Christians around us.  This trust and confidence is in God Himself.  It is not a matter of trying to remove intellectual doubts.  Much of what I see in Christians apologetics and Christians contending for the faith is rooted in trying to remove their own doubts.  For some Christians, they are trying to create a shortcut to a high degree of trust and confidence in God and eliminating doubts through trying to intellectually convince themselves of things.   When you ask questions of Christians who are trying to eliminate intellectual doubts themselves, you often get a series of dogmatic answers which cannot be questioned.  To some degree, you are getting a reaction of fear that they will lose faith themselves because they cannot allow any doubts.  As one preacher said, (not getting the quote exact, but close), "I can tell how much faith in God you have by how you react to situations in life.  If you lose your job and lay awake worrying about it night after night, do you really trust God to take care of you?  On the other hand, if you sleep just fine, you probably do trust God to take care of you."   A Christian with solid trust and confidence simply has trust and confidence in God.  A Christian without solid trust and confidence will repeat various verses over and over to themselves to convince themselves.   Now, I am NOT condemning people with doubts.  We all have them at various times and those are times we grow and learn.  The reduction of doubts and increase of trust and confidence is a process of growth we all go through.

The most positive thing I see (which is also the most important) is that your husband has seen a change in you.  It is interesting that when Jesus commissioned His followers that He told them to tell people about what they had seen.  In other words, they were to talk about those things Jesus had said and done and to tell people about what God was doing in their lives.  Today, many Christians have often replaced that with trying to make intellectual presentations about long lists of things that Christians are supposed to believe and various proofs why what they belief is correct.  When this focuses on a small number of essential things, this can be helpful.  However, when it starts heading into areas of non-essential beliefs and fringe beliefs, it becomes a distraction.  So, in a nutshell, if your husband is seeing Christians who believe the earth is flat, that only one Bible version is the only real one, and a series of similar alleged things that all Christians are supposed to believe, he's never going to be intellectually convinced because Christians who believe those things cannot even convince other Christians of them.  Focus on your own spiritual growth.  Only fight the battles which God wants you to fight.  Don't get distracted into many of these things.  In the long run, people come to Christ because God draws them.  Often a series of questions are a smokescreen hiding one or two critical issues in a person's life that are holding them back from God.  It is often an issue of having God's discernment as to what those few things really are and speaking to them with God's wisdom guiding you.

 

[Neighbor]

Just watched a movie that may be of interest and of some support:

"War Room"

Please look it up on the internet. I bought a DVD of it at Wally World. I am finding it a good encouragement for me right now. Perhaps it will be of aid in encouraging you as well.

May God bless you both.

[other one]

3 hours ago, SurrenderedWife said:

I came back to Jesus about 5 weeks ago. My unsaved husband contemplated if he should divorce me before we start a family and get our kids involved in what was already a conflicted marriage.
A couple weeks ago, he committed to staying with me and actually said he prefers me being a Christian because he saw 1) I complain much less 2)I seem happier 3)Not suicidal or anxious 4)We no longer get into arguments over things we used to since we got together. He watched a very compelling history of believers, new world order bible versions, Bible movies etc. and asked me about church, hearing very compelling things... BUT his intellect is too sharp for me now.

3 years ago I was able to debate him on over 100 different reasons he was convinced the Bible wasn't true, but he was not convinced then despite what I thought were incredibly inspired responses on my part. Eventually he convinced ME to stop believing for 3 most awful years where everything was falling apart in our home and our lives (despite us living incredibly healthy lifestyles). I turned to Jesus in desperation, but he thinks he's been improving and doing well for himself so had no such need. The compelling case for the Bible, after countless hours of searching for God, and personal experiences of God's voice and my transformation are enough for me to believe without needing to have all my questions answered. Not so for my husband. He still presents thorough intellectual challenges to the Bible that no one around us is willing or able to take on.

His heart wants to believe, but his ravenous intellect is stopping him. I'm still trying to find answers because I love him and don't want him to perish, and he reiterates that he doesn't feel preached at all and I haven't put him off. Whenever I found an answer though, he just tears it apart and makes all preachers seem like liars. :( He seems to have very good discernment when it comes to Godly and ungodly things, and with his many abilities could be one of the greatest men of God of our age. It seems a waste for him to not believe before rapture, or to die before saving and edifying many souls for the Lord....instead standing before the throne with heavy condemnation for continually rejecting God's call. I can't find any advice on how to bring a sharp-witted sceptical husband to the Lord. Could anyone advise?

I could paste the 9 pages of 'problems' he has with the Bible, but may bring them up in 'Apologetics' one at a time.

 

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've been praying throughout, including before, mid and post-conversations. Others are praying too.

you might ask him to either read the book,or watch a 5 hour video of Michael Heiser called "The Unseen Realm"  Michael has a doctorate in Hebrew and degrees in different languages including Greek and others.   He has helped to answer a lot of questions I had about the Bible....   Michael conducts seminars on many different subjects.   The way he approaches the Bible might help your husband. 

[SurrenderedWife]

Thank you so much for all your speedy feedback!

One thing I can count on here is to have Christian counsel whenever a need arises (rather than trying to steal 5 minutes with the pastor on a Sunday). God is good to me in this also <3 Praise the Lord!

It's bedtime for me so I will reply briefly and maybe more later.

Ayin, that is very wholesome and clear advice! I do believe I'm already doing those things, and I do unceasingly pray for the Holy Spirit to give me words and guide my actions. Regarding answering his questions - they're on a 9 page document now, and my husband is indifferent as to whether I go through them. I'm still unsure whether to try find answers to them (I'm afraid he will find fault again with the answers or presenters), but certainly will give a brief answer to anything fresh he asks.
 

An OrangeCat, he's aware of blatant lies put out by mainstream science, "degenerate school propaganda" etc. Still, he sees both moral and scriptural problems, which no amount of failed science could reconcile. He says he could believe that Jesus "exists" if he appeared to him, but not believe the Bible as infallible.

 

Discliamer:  I tried to stay away from doctrinal disagreements, but thought it may be ok to say the following to respond to GandalfTheWise's and MaryJane's concerns. Not intended to offend anyone, and if I broke the rules or something please let me delete and give me another chance.

MaryJane, no I've never been involved with them. When I was seeking God many years ago I never seemed to run into a Christian but did find out my flatmate of many years was JW. I was able to see the beauty of God's Word even amidst the corruptions, but inadvertedly having become familiar with common Christian theological differences through a militant atheist's game, I investigated JW's beliefs before ever committing to anything. Thank you for the suggestion, I will pray for the removal of the intellectual barrier!

GandalfTheWise, my husband and I are not in disagreement about Bible versions. He's already aware of disagreements between denominations, and knowing the history of the Catholic church etc. doesn't see it as a problem. When watching the doco, we were on the same page and he says he enjoyed it. I was impressed when he was upset about the removal of the diety of Christ, removing Lucifer and saying Jesus the 'morning star' (Isai 14:12NIV , Rev 22:16) fell from heaven, removing hell and repentance, removing belief before baptism, calling the time of reformation 'new order' and constant notes saying 'legitimacy of this verse is in question' seemingly preparing future generations to accept a Unitarian God. Impressed because it shows he understands and cares about the true gospel, even if he doesn't believe it. His arguments are more to do with "how could a loving God..." or "this prophecy here failed therefore.."

I don't care what I lose for Christ, really. I've already made peace with potentially not experiencing the miracle of motherhood, or living out our homesteading dreams with my husband if that's not God's plan (e.g. if I'm raptured beforehand, or can't have kids etc). I've given up a great job I worked really hard to get before because it asked me to go against God, and I had been physically threatened with death when I confronted someone, with prayer, as per the Bible's instructions. I remember at that time having no fear of death, and I still don't. Only ever regret of not being more fruitful for God's kingdom. I missed that confidence the most - being at peace in the midst of personal catastrophy, feeling dead to self and alive for Christ. I also thank God for letting me go through all my hardships for they 1) made me realise I need Him 2) made me come to Him more often and thus seek to know Him and be closer 3)refined my character to be more Christ-like 4) Gave me a little taste of what my God had to go through in order to redeem a useless(for lack of better word) nobody like me.

"Often a series of questions are a smokescreen hiding one or two critical issues in a person's life that are holding them back from God.  It is often an issue of having God's discernment as to what those few things really are and speaking to them with God's wisdom guiding you." -this is especially interesting! I've been getting an inkling, but you saying is like a confirmation. I'm getting the message to step back from these specific apologetics and praying to discern if/what is really behind this unbelief.

Neighbour, I never heard of the movie "War Room" until it was mentioned twice today. Whenever something like this happens, I take it very seriously and pursue it. I will watch it ASAP, thank you. Thank you for the blessings!

 

 

 

 

 

[Debp]

1 hour ago, maryjayne said:

You mentioned the New World Order Bible. Are you, or have you ever been involved with Jehovah's witnesses?

Their translation has many unique scripture wordings.

Yes, the JW's change the meaning of some verses in order to fit their doctrine.

Surrendered wife, remember that some sow, some water but God gives the increase.   Meaning that it will ultimately be the Holy Spirit who works in your husband's heart, to draw him to Christ.

One of my cousins became a Christian.   Her husband had been raised Catholic but not attending that church.   My cousin just kept going to church and finally her husband wanted to go with her.    He saw the change and even joy in her....so he started to attend with her.    Now they just returned from a mission trip to Guatemala with their church....both serving the Lord now and happy together.

So live your life in Christ, don't get pushy, pray for him.   It's already a good thing that he prefers you to be a Christian as he likes the good changes in you!

Edited August 25, 2019 by Debp

[SurrenderedWife]

17 minutes ago, other one said:

you might ask him to either read the book,or watch a 5 hour video of Michael Heiser called "The Unseen Realm"  Michael has a doctorate in Hebrew and degrees in different languages including Greek and others.   He has helped to answer a lot of questions I had about the Bible....   Michael conducts seminars on many different subjects.   The way he approaches the Bible might help your husband. 

Thank you so much!! I will have a look.
I get thoughts of "If I don't investigate this or do the right things quick enough, my husband may die without Jesus and I will forever say "Why did you take that time off to do X Y and Z and not focus 24/7 on your husband's salvation?" I know it's not up to me to save Him, it's God who saves, but it's my job to be a help and not a stumbling block... just not sure what's on me to do.  If you've been in that situation, what worked for you?

Debbie  Nice to hear from you! Funny thing about my husband is he's willing to go see a Christian movie, go to church, meet my Christian friends or pastor etc etc "If I really want him to". He doesn't initiate it though, and is not enthusiastic, so it feels awkward to ask him to come and be involved. What do you think?

Edited August 25, 2019 by SurrenderedWife

[other one]

10 minutes ago, SurrenderedWife said:

Thank you so much!! I will have a look.
I get thoughts of "If I don't investigate this or do the right things quick enough, my husband may die without Jesus and I will forever say "Why did you take that time off to do X Y and Z and not focus 24/7 on your husband's salvation?" I know it's not up to me to save Him, it's God who saves, but it's my job to be a help and not a stumbling block... just not sure what's on me to do.  If you've been in that situation, what worked for you?

Debbie  Nice to hear from you! Funny thing about my husband is he's willing to go see a Christian movie, go to church, meet my Christian friends or pastor etc etc "If I really want him to". He doesn't initiate it though, and is not enthusiastic, so it feels awkward to ask him to come and be involved. What do you think?

It sounds kind of silly, but you might ask the Holy Spirit to mess with him until he understands.....    I've seen that work in the past....