Gematria, the exactness of God

[Michael37]

15 hours ago, Yeshua153 said:

To your 1st point, I will leave shrines to the RC's & pagans, it's God's numerology, I'm interested in, as when He told Moses to write down the 1st 5 books, he would have had no clue to the mathematical & geometric structure, especially in Gen1v1 & it's link with Jn1v1, even though different language, they come together to make the perfect triangular numbers, being 2701  = 37x73 for Gen1v1 & 3627  for Jn1v1. 2701 + 3627 = 6328. The fact that 2701 is the 73rd triangular number, & 3627 is not, but fits perfectly underneath, making a larger 112th triangular number.

Also in Jn1v1 the 'Word' has the gematria of 373, mirroring itself from 37x73. Amazingly, the fabric of the universe, from energy, tome all we see around, the particles of the universe, like electrons, quarks, gluons etc, have been created from 37 blueprints called 'quantum electrical fields', which is down our designer, God in all His glory, placing all those 3's, 7's &37's in the 1st verse.

Yes I have studied triangular numbers, indicating our triune God. Look at Iesous = 888 = 24x37 & Christos = 1480 = 40x37. The word wisdom is chokmah in hebrew & adds to 73, the ordinal numbers,(where it appears in the hebrew alphabet) is 37!

Just as an add on, 37 is the 12th prime number, & 73 is 21st prime number, all reflective of God's glory, not forgetting the star & hexagonal numbers, that also appear in every single snowflake, Job 38v22.

Yes, the arrangements are there and can be found tossing in the waves of the sea, and blowing about in every wind of doctrine, so I would like to be sure you have not become immeshed in Kabbalah

Kabbalah

[kəˈbɑːlə, ˈkabələ]

 

NOUN

Qabalah (noun) · Cabala (noun) · Cabbala (noun) · Kabbala (noun)

1. the ancient Jewish tradition of mystical interpretation of the Bible, first transmitted orally and using esoteric methods (including ciphers). It reached the height of its influence in the later Middle Ages and remains significant in Hasidism.

   synonyms:

   the supernatural · the paranormal · supernaturalism · magic · black magic · witchcraft · sorcery · necromancy · wizardry · the black arts · cabbalism · occultism · diabolism · devil worship · devilry · voodoo · hoodoo · white magic · witchery · witching · orenda · mysticism · makutu · theurgy

    

    

    

    

    

    

ORIGIN from medieval Latin cabala, cabbala, from Rabbinical Hebrew qabbālāh‘tradition’, from qibbēl‘receive, accept’.

[Oxford Dictionaries Online]

[canada]

Michael37 ... Here is wisdom.  Let he who hath understanding count the number ... ... Rev 13:18

Do you believe this is indicating a very simple situation where a letter (like in Hebrew or Greek or other language) involves a value?

Do you believe Psalm 119 involves God's simple use of gematria to indicate 8 verses?

I believe there is a huge difference between occult "numerology" and Jewish use of kabbalah versus God's simple use of a letter having value in God's "wisdom verse".

[Michael37]

35 minutes ago, canada said:

Michael37 ... Here is wisdom.  Let he who hath understanding count the number ... ... Rev 13:18

Do you believe this is indicating a very simple situation where a letter (like in Hebrew or Greek or other language) involves a value?

Do you believe Psalm 119 involves God's simple use of gematria to indicate 8 verses?

I believe there is a huge difference between occult "numerology" and Jewish use of kabbalah versus God's simple use of a letter having value in God's "wisdom verse".

Yes, I'm aware what you say. We must be sure not to be drawn into mystical realms that detract from the context and congruity of the Word of God. By all means count all the numbers from 1 to 36 adding them in triangular array to equal 666. Then what?

 

[canada]

5 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Yes, I'm aware what you say. We must be sure not to be drawn into mystical realms that detract from the context and congruity of the Word of God. By all means count all the numbers from 1 to 36 adding them in triangular array to equal 666. Then what?

 

For it is the number of a man.   In context, what does that have to do with adding the numbers 1 to 36?

[Michael37]

32 minutes ago, canada said:

For it is the number of a man.   In context, what does that have to do with adding the numbers 1 to 36?

Wisdom - sophia (Gr) - chokmah (He)

Job 38:36-37
(36)  Who has put wisdom in the inward parts? or who has given understanding to the heart?
(37)  Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,

Some time ago I researched the topic of wisdom and two aspects of it stood out as follows:

1. Antiquity
2. Numeracy

The relationship and association of numbers with the objects and concepts they describe is inherent in wisdom, which is why from ancient times any skill that involved numbers was held in high regard and considered to be wisdom. 

Rev 13:18
(18)  Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count (psephizo) the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Strongs G5585
ψηφίζω
psēphizō
psay-fid'-zo
From G5586; to use pebbles in enumeration, that is, (genitive case) to compute: - count.
Total KJV occurrences: 2

Why the number 666 in particular. Spare me the wild theories and just count, enumerate with understanding that there is something wise about the number 666 based on antiquity and numeracy. Row 1 has 1 pebble, and each row increases by 1 pebble until row 36 brings the total pebbles to 666. The number of the row points to the total, and this total can also be arrived at in the name of a man. Once again spare me the wild theories... the significance of the triangular feature of the number 666 is an aspect of the study of Apexology...which deals with how and why supremacy is achieved throughout history, specifically in the affairs of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Political Rome, Papal Rome, and Metaphorical Global Rome.

Regards from Michael37 (of the three seven-letter names)  

[Worship Warriors]

Bible knowledge without encounter leads to religion.  Bible knowledge with encounter leads to more fascination with Jesus. For me, I prefer to stay with the church even if its not perfect. Besides we are all in the process of growing up.

[Who me]

19 hours ago, Yeshua153 said:

Biblical truth, & I was frustrated with local churches of anglican, baptist & pentecostal, as they all celebrated pagan festivals of xmas & easter, which is enough to put me off, along with the 'get saved' one time doctrine. For years it was like having a jigsaw puzzle of a few pieces, & not seeing what the picture is, until 15yrs ago, of diligent study, & seeing the picture unfold. Now in those previous 30yrs, God allowed me to make the mistakes of putting up with different doctrine, & is now maturing me in faith.

This croops up every so often and for me there are two things I remember

eph2 ⁸ For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, ⁹ not a result of works, so that no one may boast. ¹⁰ For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

We do not earn or deserve salvation, so celebrating sunday or saturday, both pagan days or christmas or easter only christmas is pagan is irrelevent. compared to what we are celebrating.

and John4:²¹ “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. ²² You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. ²³ Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. ²⁴ God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

 

God wants us to worship him, provided that is what we are doing is he going to reject us.

[Yeshua153]

Just now, Who me said:

 

We do not earn or deserve salvation, so celebrating sunday or saturday, both pagan days or christmas or easter only christmas is pagan is irrelevent. compared to what we are celebrating.

 

I'm not going to drift away from the subject of the thread, just to say, you have reminded me to start another thread, to inform folks, the origins of easter being pagan. 

[GandalfTheWise]

If anyone is interested, a big name in this is Ivan Panin.  Type his name into a search engine and a number of links will come up. He devoted his life to the study of bible numerics.  Many Christians believe he has provided solid mathematical and scientific proof God wrote the Bible.  Here's one link (http://numericnewtestament.com/resources) to a page with some of his works including a link to a version of the Greek New Testament he worked on.  He used biblical numerics to determine which readings from which Greek manuscripts were the correct ones.  Anyone else is basically an amateur at this compared to the decades Panin spent working on these things.

As far as I can tell, Panin took this to an extreme and just started trying to find patterns of sevens (and other numbers) in numbers of words in passages, lengths of words, adding up values of words, and basically anything else he could count.  The problem is that he inconsistently applied these things.  He would sometimes use the dictionary form of a word instead of how it actually appeared in the text.  He would adjust the length of what verses and words were part of a "passage".    As far as I can tell, he would just look for anything he could count or add or multiply and looked for multiples of the number 7.  As a simple matter of probability, if you count and add and multiply numbers around you, about 1/7 of the things you see will end up being a multiple of 7.   Right now, I could count things like the number of books on my desk, number of pages in these books, number of pages which start with a word with a consonant, number of times the name Jesus occurs in the books, the number of pages the name Jesus occurs, and about 1/7 of all those different numbers I generate will be a multiple of 7.  If I generated 1000 different numbers like this, I'd end up with about 150 occurrences of a multiple of 7.    As it happens, I do have 35 books (5 times 7 !!!) sitting on my desk write now but I'll ignore the fact I only have 4 pens and pencils, and that 19 books are hard cover and 18 are soft cover.  If I keep looking and counting, I'll eventually generate a string of things that have 7 involved in some way.

My opinion is that gematria is basically little more than taking a verse like Proverbs 25:2 (It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. Prov 25:2 AV) to an unhealthy and unproductive extreme and looking for things that are not there.  I've spent decades of my life professionally using mathematics on a near daily basis.  I got into gematria and numerology (including Panin's works) for a short time many years ago.  Then I realized that I was seeing patterns that didn't have any real meaning.   Most of them were simply due to how things appeared in our modern base 10 numeral system.   For example, 666 has three sixes only in our modern base 10 system.  In Greek, it was 3 distinct symbols (χξς).  In hexadecimal (based 16), it is 29A.  In base 7, it is 1641.    I used to really get into things such as 666 emphasizing 6 falling short of 7 which is perfection, and being emphasized 3 times for whatever reason it was.  Then I realized it is just playing games and getting excited if something like repeated numbers 888 or patterns of numbers 123 and 321 happen to show up.

There seem to be some symbolic uses of explicit numbers which repeat often such as 7 and 12, but I don't think there is a secret numerical system underlying all of this.  If gematria or numerics were indeed a way in which God has revealed truth, I would have expected to see it explicitly explained somewhere in the NT where Paul or Peter or one of the apostles explicitly talked about it.  My opinion is that this is mostly wishful thinking.

[lovethelord]

Yeshua153,

I never head about Gematria, so I went online to read what the name Christ and Jesus mean.  Would you say these are accurate? I just wondered as I've never been good with math or numbers, which is why I just like reading the Bible but I know there is special significance in numbers in the Bible.

 

CHRIST = 365567  (which is CHR yields us nothing less than the number of days in our solar year, or 365)

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by lovethelord