Christian socialism

[johnthebaptist]

2 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

It sounds like you have a common Capitalist misunderstanding of socialism and may be drawing conclusions based on that. You say that "Under socialism, nobody has to work". That is inherently untrue. In socialism, as with any economic system, the working class must work to support the system and in every instance I've looked at, you are required to work if able. Willing isn't a consideration(although unwilling could land one in really hot water). At any rate, I believe that Christians should spend our time doing God's will and while it is good to have a say in the political social or economic system, it's not anything that Christ told us to worry about. When He said, "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" He was not only referring to the tax in question but teaching us that whoever is in power is not our worry and we should give to them whatever they require (as long as they don't require something that would keep you from worshiping God). He then follows with "And unto God that which is God's". With that as our example, we should spend our time converting sinners to Christ and not Socialists to Capitalists(or vice versa). I believe that when we spend our time on Political or systemic economic issues we're wasting the time we could be using for His will. Personally I don't believe that either Capitalism or Socialism is inherently better than the other and as someone has stated, it's because human nature has and always will corrupt every system. Either system would be fine as a Christian if everyone involved had Christian values and lived by them but since that's never going to be the case, as Christians, don't we have more pressing issues? "The harvest is great and the laborers few", so let's get to work on the harvest regardless of which economic system you (or they) prefer.  

People who work for a living don't want to see their tax dollars go to able-bodied people who are too lazy to work.

[Seasoned by Grace]

11 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

I dont think humanity has tried true socialism yet.

As an aside, my country doesnt give to the able bodied who can work. They give to the unemployed while they have to fulfill and prove strict requirements to look for work, or the help is removed.

Europe is in no worse financial crisis than the US, China or Russia, to name a few.

And no, socialism as practiced in my country is not demonic. There is nothing cruel or inhumane about helping the poor, disabled, unemployed etc who are struggling to make ends meet and, due to circumstances out of their control, cant earn enough to survive.

maryjane, I have enjoyed your posts in several threads.

>BUT<. if you study history from the 30's and 40's, humanity has tried true socialism, and has resoundingly rejected it because it's an ideal of control of the many, because the few think they are the smartest, and the rest don't know how to do for themselves.

Jesus said the poor will always be with us, and is not a mark against any country because they don't do a perfect job, and not a justification for socialism.

I don't know what you call socialism in your country, but that you describe is what we do here in the United States, and we do not TAKE money away from someone to help someone else. We plan ahead and have money set aside to help others through Govt. agencies paid through taxes, while WE KEEP CONTROL OF OUR MONEY and we choose how to spend it, NOT SOMEONE ELSE IN GOVERNMENT.

20 minutes ago, Nadjeschda said:

It even sounds a bit funny if you watch the historic embodiment of socialism. Lenin copied the idea of „who shall not work shall not eat“ and by this created the Gulag system. The Chinese later retermed it „re-education through work“. However god gave us a natural tendency to enjoy labor, the problem is that lowly paid forms of labour come with social humiliation and low life expectancy. If everyone is protected and valued even for a low Labour the joy of Ora et labora would come back. In socialism this did not work either because openly they said they admire the low worker but in reality they continue to value those with most power - now state authorities. What we really need is a mental switch away from admiring worldly wealth and power and Jesus teachings are the only that can change our souls in this way. Capitalism is not a god in contrast; you can use it to organize an enconomy in a practical sense, but you can not derive any ethical values from it.

This is so twisted, I can't believe it's here. USING CHRISTIANITY TO JUSTIFY SOCIALISM. What will satan think of next. BE CAREFUL PEOPLE. THESE IDEA'S WON'T STOP HERE.

THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.

[Kristin]

12 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

what about all the vile evil before the flood?

They got killed. 

[johnthebaptist]

55 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

No that's not it. I don't have time to go into the details right now but I know that is not what socialism is.

My understanding is that socialism has destroyed the economy of any county that has tried it. Isn't Venezuela a good example?

[Kristin]

Is there such a thing a “Christian Socialism”. I think not. Socialism by its very nature is anti Christ. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Kristin

[existential mabel]

Just now, johnthebaptist said:

My understanding is that socialism has destroyed the economy of any county that has tried it. Isn't Venezuela a good example?

hmmmmn indeed and the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has visited this country a few times ....

[Nadjeschda]

19 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

There is something about socialism which drives US people mad. Its like setting fire to them. I have not found a way to reason about this, in conversation with them, even using examples of how our healthcare system and welfare system is a good thing in my country.

all the best with pursuing this topic : )

I come from Germany (by the way if our state quota is still above 50 percent than according to one definition of socialism we are a socialist economy). I would not voluntary live in the USA. However I think I can shed some light on why many US people get so angry in such discussions. The US is one of the most wealth-inequal societies of the world. Know there have been long term studies that inequality attacks your soul by destroying your capability to trust others. God knows that and I am sure he will not punish people for loosing trust in this way. But the end process of loosing trust is paranoia ...

[Kristin]

What do you mean?  Are we not in on your knowledge?  You believe we should pay for you? You and her?  What do you mean?????

5 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

see what I mean @Nadjeschda ?

 

: )

 

[Kristin]

Just now, Kristin said:

What do you mean?  Are we not in on your knowledge?  You believe we should pay for you? You and her?  What do you mean?????

 

[Kristin]

Ok. Unpronounceable name would rather live in Germany than the USA. GOTCHA.