JOHN 16:1 IS JESUS TALKING TO YOU?

[douge]

John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Beginning in John chapter 13 Jesus has been speaking to the twelve disciples during the Passover meal.

All the promises were delivered not to the church today, the body of Christ, but rather to the twelve disciples.

Promised to the twelve :

1) Many mansions John 14:2

2) Greater works John 14:12

3) Anything asked in the name of Jesus will be done John 14:14

4) The Spirit of truth John 14:17

5) To abide in Christ John 15:4

6) If abiding in Christ and his word abides in them they may ask what they will and it will be done John 15:7

Jesus spoke of them being put out of the synagogues which further makes it dubious that the church, the body of Christ was in view here.

[R. Hartono]

10 hours ago, douge said:

Jesus spoke of them being put out of the synagogues which further makes it dubious that the church, the body of Christ was in view here.

Try to preach Gospel n Salvation of Christ at those Jews' synagogues now n let's see what Will happen to you.

[JTC]

16 hours ago, douge said:

John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Beginning in John chapter 13 Jesus has been speaking to the twelve disciples during the Passover meal.

All the promises were delivered not to the church today, the body of Christ, but rather to the twelve disciples.

Promised to the twelve :

1) Many mansions John 14:2

2) Greater works John 14:12

3) Anything asked in the name of Jesus will be done John 14:14

4) The Spirit of truth John 14:17

5) To abide in Christ John 15:4

6) If abiding in Christ and his word abides in them they may ask what they will and it will be done John 15:7

Jesus spoke of them being put out of the synagogues which further makes it dubious that the church, the body of Christ was in view here.

Hi douge,   I hate to say this but I more or less agree with you because I have had this thought myself, and that's unfortunate. But it makes real mesh better with what we believe and I like things to make sense. However, I don't agree with every point you made especially #1 the many mansions. I think that still applies to us today. I'm one of the people who believes what we do matters and I think this is one of the reasons. It's only logical that those who sin the least should get the better rewards. Mansions is just a way of saying rewards.

   Even though I mostly agree with you I still hope we are both wrong.

[Who me]

17 hours ago, douge said:

John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Beginning in John chapter 13 Jesus has been speaking to the twelve disciples during the Passover meal.

All the promises were delivered not to the church today, the body of Christ, but rather to the twelve disciples.

Promised to the twelve :

1) Many mansions John 14:2

2) Greater works John 14:12

3) Anything asked in the name of Jesus will be done John 14:14

4) The Spirit of truth John 14:17

5) To abide in Christ John 15:4

6) If abiding in Christ and his word abides in them they may ask what they will and it will be done John 15:7

Jesus spoke of them being put out of the synagogues which further makes it dubious that the church, the body of Christ was in view here.

Jesus spoke to many people that we have reorded in the NT, like John3:16-21 said to Nicodemus, is this also only for him or as it is normallt understood to be for everyone.

If 14:2 is not true then heaven if it is a celestial city, will be a most uncomfortable place if there are no places for us, only for the disciples.

[douge]

3 hours ago, JTC said:

Hi douge,   I hate to say this but I more or less agree with you because I have had this thought myself, and that's unfortunate. But it makes real mesh better with what we believe and I like things to make sense. However, I don't agree with every point you made especially #1 the many mansions. I think that still applies to us today. I'm one of the people who believes what we do matters and I think this is one of the reasons. It's only logical that those who sin the least should get the better rewards. Mansions is just a way of saying rewards.

   Even though I mostly agree with you I still hope we are both wrong.

Rightly dividing the Word makes the most sense.

It is confusing to take what was for Israel and what is for the church, the body of Christ and mix it all up.

It still remains that when he spoke of mansions he was speaking to the twelve. We have all spiritual blessings in heavenly places (Ephesians 1:3 )

[douge]

2 hours ago, Who me said:

Jesus spoke to many people that we have reorded in the NT, like John3:16-21 said to Nicodemus, is this also only for him or as it is normallt understood to be for everyone.

If 14:2 is not true then heaven if it is a celestial city, will be a most uncomfortable place if there are no places for us, only for the disciples.

John 3:16 is true for us but this is the gospel Israel had to believe. Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus, that he is Messiah, the Son of God. The cross was not being preached in John 3:16.

John 14:2 was spoken of to the twelve and never applied to the church, the body of Christ by Paul. The heavenly city on earth is for Israel. The church is in heavenly places (Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 2:6).

[Who me]

1 hour ago, douge said:

John 3:16 is true for us but this is the gospel Israel had to believe. Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus, that he is Messiah, the Son of God. The cross was not being preached in John 3:16.

John 14:2 was spoken of to the twelve and never applied to the church, the body of Christ by Paul. The heavenly city on earth is for Israel. The church is in heavenly places (Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 2:6).

If the cross is not in John3:16 then that verse does not apply to us.

[unworthyservant]

On 9/19/2019 at 4:27 PM, douge said:

All the promises were delivered not to the church today, the body of Christ, but rather to the twelve disciples.

I happen to believe that everything that Christ taught or promised applies to everyone of us equally, else who's going to say which are for us and which are for the Apostles only or which are just for "that guy behind that tree".

Edited September 20, 2019 by unworthyservant
typo

[Walter and Deborah]

On 9/19/2019 at 1:27 PM, douge said:

John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Beginning in John chapter 13 Jesus has been speaking to the twelve disciples during the Passover meal.

All the promises were delivered not to the church today, the body of Christ, but rather to the twelve disciples.

Promised to the twelve :

1) Many mansions John 14:2

2) Greater works John 14:12

3) Anything asked in the name of Jesus will be done John 14:14

4) The Spirit of truth John 14:17

5) To abide in Christ John 15:4

6) If abiding in Christ and his word abides in them they may ask what they will and it will be done John 15:7

Jesus spoke of them being put out of the synagogues which further makes it dubious that the church, the body of Christ was in view here.

Hi douge, Amen, Good post, always according to His will. 

Love always, Walter

[JTC]

On 9/19/2019 at 4:27 PM, douge said:

All the promises were delivered not to the church today, the body of Christ, but rather to the twelve disciples.

Promised to the twelve :
1) Many mansions John 14:2
2) Greater works John 14:12
3) Anything asked in the name of Jesus will be done John 14:14

4) The Spirit of truth John 14:17

5) To abide in Christ John 15:4
6) If abiding in Christ and his word abides in them they may ask what they will and it will be done John 15:7

Let's take a closer look at this. I already said I believe point 1 is for us as well as them.

  It's mostly points 2 & 3 that I'm not so sure are for us. Maybe they are only we aren't living right, that we might have these blessings?

  The Spirit of Truth, point 4, is the same as the Holy Spirit and I have seen manifestations of the Holy Spirit from 40 yrs ago.

   Now for points 5 & 6 we are told we must "abide" in Jesus. But exactly what does that mean (we can do an entire word study right here)? Google defines abide as to: accept or act in accordance with (a rule, decision, or recommendation).   Hmm, this sounds like we must act in accordance with what Jesus said we must do. Yes, He said we must believe in Him but that's only step 1. Jesus said we must do many things, we can generalize them by saying we must not sin. All the apostles said that also. I'm not fond of the book of Revelation because it's heavy symbolic but what Jesus says in the 7 letters to the 7 churches is not symbolic at all. Let's look at some.

  To the church in Ephesus the Lord said: (this is from the ESV)  2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. 3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary. 4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. 6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’   There's that word repent.

  Jesus says this to the church in Pergamum,    13 “‘I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality. 15 So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’       I think we know where Satan's throne is (almost anywhere these days, but I mean America & Europe. So this applies to us)  But what did the Nicolaitans teach that made Jesus hate them so? This can also be long. Anything Gnostic which includes any New Age idea or practice. This means, astrology, yoga, tarot cards, going to a psychic even as fun, etc.

   So basically perhaps the reasons we can't ask what we want of God and have it done for us is because we are not abiding in Jesus enough.

   Wow, I didn't know all this. Thank you douge for getting me to study this.

   This means all the Biblical promises are for us as well the apostles.