Vicarious Law-keeping?

[Firm Foundation]

2 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Sure it is ....Believing the promises of God is Faith and you do not believe God’s Promise to “ save to the uttermost, all that com to Him  with Faith in Jesus as He is always there to make intercession for us”....plain as can be......Judas never had any Faith and that is why he is Hell tonight.....He never would have betrayed Jesus had he believed that Jesus was who He said He was— God in the Flesh and the Savior Of The World....

God can’t do “ anything”...... he can’t lie.....Judas was not a Believer and he knocked himself out of the Promise.....God would have to break His Promise in order to save   Judas .It could never happen.You are just dodging explaining my Hebrews verse because you can’t answer it.The verses you want me to explain to you , I have explained several times. I will explain them again AFTER you explain Heb.7 ( saving to the UTTERMOST )...... there just ain’t no getting around it .You can’t defend your view— I can get around any verse you post, as I have been doing  for quite some time.Others see it even though you are blind.

 

 

It doesn't say that God shall save everyone to the uttermost.  It says he is capable of doing it.  Big difference.  That wasn't even hard to dispute.  

[Firm Foundation]

1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

A QUESTION to all those who say we have to keep the 10 commandments.

 

We read that the Lord told the people of Israel -

`You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not murder," and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. BUT I SAY TO YOU that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment......` (Matt. 5: 21 & 22)

Jesus spoke of other commandments and then goes on to say,` BUT I SAY TO YOU....` where He is referring to the heart motivation.

 

So my question to those who desire to keep the law, "How do you address your heart motivation? "

 

Marilyn.

 

(I posted this again so it would not be lost in OSAS debate.)

Surely you don't believe it is ok to break the  commandment not to commit murder?  I do believe we can't commit murder and be right with God.

Desiring to keep the law is something entirely different.  I simply don't believe it is ok to murder people.  I don't want to, so from that standpoint I desire to obey that commandment.

[Debp]

8 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

Presbyterian, and know they all reject OSAS.  That is why I repeat that when you look at the church as a whole, it is divided over this issue, and I would suggest the majority reject OSAS.

You mentioned other denominations as well, saying they reject eternal security.   I wonder if you were incorrect about any of them?  You are incorrect about Presbyterians.   Presbyterians believe in eternal security.

If one reads the following article carefully, one will see Presbyterians believe in eternal security.   And that it is a work of God in us that helps us to persevere.   Also explained in the article is that not everyone is a true Christian, so that is the reason some fall away.

https://www.opc.org/qa.html?question_id=49

[brotherdon]

On 10/3/2019 at 9:26 AM, Justin Adams said:

I think this.

Those who argue against the law (why do they bother) probably have not read it or understood why it was given and for what purpose. Thus I see they do not realize how Yeshua completes it while upholding it. Yeshua does not replace it, He embodies it. It is a schoolmaster, a guide, a set of reasons and ideas that show us the Heart of a Holy God. How else will will know Him? By the word of some odd theology that the preacher spoke? Some man-ology that ignores the Tanakh?

I think not.

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

² For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

³ Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

⁴ Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

⁵ Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

⁶ For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

⁷ Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

⁸ Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

⁹ But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

¹⁰ But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

¹¹ Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

¹² Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

¹³ But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

¹⁴ But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

¹⁵ And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

¹⁶ All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

¹⁷ That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3

[brotherdon]

⁹ But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

¹⁰ And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

¹¹ Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

¹² Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

¹³ But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

¹⁴ Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

¹⁵ Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

¹⁶ And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

¹⁷ Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

¹⁸ But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

¹⁹ For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

²⁰ These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

²¹ Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. Matthew 15:9-23

 

 

¹⁵ So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

¹⁶ Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

¹⁷ And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

¹⁸ And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

¹⁹ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

²⁰ Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:15-20

 

[WordSword]

9 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

That is speaking of ministry gifts.  We know none of them held to unconditional security.  You know that.

To avoid the appearance of merely arguing, we need to supply some type of what we feel is support (preferably Scripture) with our comments and opinions, otherwise we're just debating and discussing what we believe but not why. Thanks. I also wanted you to know I like the manner of sincerity you show.

I'm also not liking much that in the thread it looks like a lot of others are coming against you (hope you don't see it that way, which you may not), but that's not what is happening. I think it's from a good working concern you truly have for how we communicate the Word, and thanks for it.

Edited October 12, 2019 by WordSword

[WordSword]

10 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

That is speaking of ministry gifts.  We know none of them held to unconditional security.  You know that.

Please know this isn't to debate your comment but discuss its meaning (Rom 11:29). The verse concerns all the gifts of God (esp. redemption or salvation), but verse 29 is particularly Israel's Covenant (vs 26, 27), and the Christian's Covenant is also in the subject (vs 28, 30). 

Edited October 12, 2019 by WordSword

[Blood Bought 1953]

8 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

It doesn't say that God shall save everyone to the uttermost.  It says he is capable of doing it.  Big difference.  That wasn't even hard to dispute.  

 

Do you really believe the intent of that verse was to show the  “capabilities of God ?” The intent was to comfort and give assurance to all that come to Him in the only manner that He will accept ....Through His  Son.To those that do it the Way God demands- HE will see that anything and everything else will be taken care of

 Note to Newbies.....Have you ever heard the term “Accuser of the Brethern?”Some people really seem to relish that role.....They live to sew doubt and take away the assurance that God wants for His Children....Paul  never said to try to convince them of the Truth.....you can't argue with these types.....Paul said to stay away from them.....good advice...Come to Jesus with Faith in His Gospel ALONE and let God do the work in your life He longs to do.......ignore those who are not happy until they find  a way to make every verse  in the Bible sound like you are bound for Hell......God Bless

 

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

Surely you don't believe it is ok to break the  commandment not to commit murder?  I do believe we can't commit murder and be right with God.

Desiring to keep the law is something entirely different.  I simply don't believe it is ok to murder people.  I don't want to, so from that standpoint I desire to obey that commandment.

Hi Firm Foundation,

Thank you for your reply. Now just to have some clarification -

1. `Do you mean that in your own strength, you try not to commit murder?`

 

And - `We read that the Lord told the people of Israel -

`You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not murder," and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. BUT I SAY TO YOU that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment......` (Matt. 5: 21 & 22)

Jesus spoke of other commandments and then goes on to say,` BUT I SAY TO YOU....` where He is referring to the heart motivation.

2. `So how do you keep your heart motivation right?

 

Marilyn.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

If it ain’t a New Heart......don’t waste your time ....there are no reform measures in that regard— its replacement or nothing....