What to make of "the rest of the Beasts" and "a season and a time."

[Diaste]

On 10/7/2019 at 5:06 PM, iamlamad said:

Considering this verse:

Dan. 7:¹² As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

This verse seems to make this chapter an end time chapter. While the Beast that parallels the Rev. 13 Beast is killed, it seems the other three are kings whose life is spared for a while.

Any thoughts?

There is a lot in Dan 7 the refers to the end of the age and I think this is the least evidence.

But the three kings whose life is spared are those kings that will eventually help Satan mass the army at the end of the 1000 years and march on the Holy City.  

[Sister]

On 10/13/2019 at 12:45 AM, breathoflife said:

Hi Sister. If we look in the Revelation we are told this about these beings.

Satan (rev. 12:10 ) in heaven before God the Father accusing the brethren day and night.

Beast 2 or anti-Christ presently locked in the Bottomless Pit

False prophet presently at work in the air. 

Hi breathoflife

I know you are talking about three here, but if we just take Satan out of the equasion for now with the other two as many depict to be the "antichrist" and "false prophet" being two super men of Satan, I would like to explain in my own words a little more about the first and second beast of Rev 13, and address what you said about the 2nd beast/anti-Christ being presently locked in the bottomless pit.

What I need to demonstrate first is that the 2nd beast or anti-christ (as the world calls him) is the same guy who is the False prophet.  He is also called "the Son of Perdition" as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians, and the little horn of Daniel.

You said the 2nd beast (anti-christ) is presently locked in the bottomless Pit?  I presume you got that scripture  from here;

Revelation 11:7   And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

This beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit mentioned above is not referring to whom the world calls "the anti-christ", a single man who will claim to be God (the 2nd beast),… but is referring to the end time kingdom controlled by the ten kings. It’s that beast, the first one in Rev 13.  It’s the same fourth terrible beast that Daniel spoke of with the 10 horns.  The last ruling kingdom of man that will conform into the kingdom of hell. 

How does a kingdom come out of the bottomless pit?  Simple, we only have to ask who runs the bottomless pit and what it is exactly?

The bottomless pit is where "the kingdom of darkness" is based, ....which Satan has built his foundation upon.

The place where evil springs from is his home.

All evil done upon the earth, and which exists in the heart of man comes out of that bottomless pit from the foundation of evil - because it has to come from somewhere and it doesn’t come from above where "the kingdom of light" is based.

Satan who is the chief in command of his kingdom, …which delegates to his men who will do what, when and how….rewards these 10 kings for their loyal service to him. Service of abominations, and debauchery,…service of lies, greed and oppression with murder, service of theft, and service causing the destruction of souls is what he requires of them.

Satan tempts them, …(the 10 kings) with gifts of the material which they love, providing an ocean load of money beyond our imagination, and tempts them with all the power to eventually take all the kingdoms of the earth and “continue” with the plan he gave them a very long time ago which started in the late 1700's with choosing 10 men who would pass their seats down to their offspring until we reach the final 10.

A hard to resist proposition was presented to them exactly like the one he suggested to Christ - in that he would give him all the kingdoms of the world ...if only he would bow down and worship him.  What Christ rejected & rebuked, these 10 kings (not real kings) gladly accepted. It was not just an act of bowing down and worshiping, but he bids them to do his full will and carry out certain tasks to keep them working for what he promised them, and they formed a tight secretive network to achieve this goal.

So although Satan has had control of all the nations and kingdoms of the earth since the beginning, and although he managed to kill all the holy men who gave great service to the LORD OF HOSTS,  and our Lord Jesus Christ, but never has he had the opportunity to run a kingdom that will corner all Christians throughout the earth in every single nation, and put them into a very deep sleep to steal their souls, or take the strong ones unhindered with prison, hunger and death - is his dream come true. Then to eventually kill all men and even those who he has been conspiring with.

The idea of this came straight out of the bottomless pit. A kingdom with all carrying out his will and executing his ideas.  His carefully thought out plan is coming to fruition through the 10 kings with the power he gives them.  Through them and the laws they will introduce and change will be made manifest and declared through a man of his chosing, the Son of Perdition.  The 10 kings are at the heart of this kingdom, and that wicked man who is to come out of them ... whom they will groom ... to perform their will (which is Satan's will) will cause all men to worship whatever they say and do…..and bow down to their laws.

 Revelation 13:12   And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

This man of sin who is the False Prophet/Son of Perdition/anti-christ (all the same man) is pointing us all to the first beast, that kingdom of the 10 kings to serve their laws and worship “their” image.  The ten kings came first and without them (and their power from the dragon), the FP cannot do anything, because they are working together.  Together they will use "trickery" and "deceit" to fool the souls of men.

So there are only two beasts.  The kingdom of the 10, and their spokesman who will arise will control the secular and the spiritual all in one which is why he is seen as a lamb with two horns, in charge of both.

The false prophet cannot be the prince of the air, because he is a man and not a spirit.  Whatever miracles he will perform is all trickery using advanced technology that the 10 kings have possessed and kept low key.

 

I hope this all makes sense and you can see that there are only two beasts, the kingdom of the 10, who want all the earth and precious things for themselves and the FP who is the Anti-Christ/Son of Peridition/little horn/man of Sin.  Only two.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Sister

[breathoflife]

On 10/8/2019 at 6:57 AM, iamlamad said:

the

The key is the beast unlike any of the previous beasts. In what way is it different than the others. Find that difference and things begin to fall into place. What did the other kingdoms have in common? They were all world powers during their day. We are told whoever this kingdom is they had not been rulers and would rule with the beast/anti-christ for one hour. This kingdom is going to be the apostate portion of the nation of Israel. We are told in Zec 11 that the Lord will cause apostate Israel to break in two kingdoms. One kingdom will be the southern kingdom having two of the twelve tribes. The northern kingdom will have 10 tribes of which three have been plucked up leaving 7 heads and 10 crowns. This is mystery Babylon. She has ten kings, 3 heads, leaders have been removed. She is sitting on the 10 crowns, 7 heads or the northern kingdom on the scarlet beast

[iamlamad]

7 minutes ago, breathoflife said:

The key is the beast unlike any of the previous beasts. In what way is it different than the others. Find that difference and things begin to fall into place. What did the other kingdoms have in common? They were all world powers during their day. We are told whoever this kingdom is they had not been rulers and would rule with the beast/anti-christ for one hour. This kingdom is going to be the apostate portion of the nation of Israel. We are told in Zec 11 that the Lord will cause apostate Israel to break in two kingdoms. One kingdom will be the southern kingdom having two of the twelve tribes. The northern kingdom will have 10 tribes of which three have been plucked up leaving 7 heads and 10 crowns. This is mystery Babylon. She has ten kings, 3 heads, leaders have been removed. She is sitting on the 10 crowns, 7 heads or the northern kingdom on the scarlet beast

Unless you can show us the 10 northern kingdoms (they don't exist today) I will continue to think this is imagination. Perhaps you think that God will miraculously create the 10 northern kingdoms again. Please, show us some kind of scripture for this theory?

"Mystery Babylon" is "that great city." In another chapter, John shows us that the "great city" is JERUSALEM. It is NOT "Israel." A city is not a nation and a nation is not a city.  All you have to do is read the last verse of Rev. 17. John is specially speaking of the last 3.5 years of the week, when the Beast and False Prophet will deceive the ENTIRE WORLD from that city of Jerusalem.

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is a lot in Dan 7 the refers to the end of the age and I think this is the least evidence.

But the three kings whose life is spared are those kings that will eventually help Satan mass the army at the end of the 1000 years and march on the Holy City.  

I thought it was three evil spirits that came out of the mouths of the Devil, the Beast and the FAlse Prophet.  I also think you are a thousand years off here. Are you rearranging chapter 20?

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

How does this make any sense? Why would Paul be referring to shadows when the vision he's giving is for the future and in the future and directly references the gathering of the saints at the coming of the Lord?

If it's a last trump, it's the last in a series. The only series of trumps extant related to the end of the age in correlation to the gathering of which Paul speaks, are the 7 trumps of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

So then the last trump Paul mentions must be the 7th trump of Revelation. 

 

You are free to imagine this - but mark my words - you will end up wrong.  The Feasts of God will go right to the end of this age. So the "last trump" of Paul can certainly be the last final trumpet blast of the feast of trumpets. After all, the rapture will be 7 years before the end. Why would the "last trump" to signal the rapture be in a series of judgments? And why would it EVER be associated with the 3rd woe?

Therefore the "last trump" of Paul CANNOT in any way be associated with the 7 trumpets of Revelation.

[breathoflife]

18 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Unless you can show us the 10 northern kingdoms (they don't exist today) I will continue to think this is imagination. Perhaps you think that God will miraculously create the 10 northern kingdoms again. Please, show us some kind of scripture for this theory?

"Mystery Babylon" is "that great city." In another chapter, John shows us that the "great city" is JERUSALEM. It is NOT "Israel." A city is not a nation and a nation is not a city.  All you have to do is read the last verse of Rev. 17. John is specially speaking of the last 3.5 years of the week, when the Beast and False Prophet will deceive the ENTIRE WORLD from that city of Jerusalem.

you won't accept Zec. 11 where is the nation in the Last days is split in two with the northern kingdom have had ten crowns for the ten heads who have been reduced by three by the Lord leaving the required 7 unless I can be like John and get you and me in the spirit to travel I am out of luck. 

The rest of the questions I have answered over and over. So here one more time. She is shown to us three times her spiritual condition when first identified  as Jerusalem she is shown spiritually  to be Sodom and Egypt. This is when they say where their Lord was crucified. To men she looks just like men see literal Jerusalem. But the Lord lifts up the unseen curtain that stops us from seeing as God sees. The Lord knows her uncircumcised heart shows her to be apostate with the traits of these two enemies of God. When you get to Re. 17 we are shown the great city has not changed to Rome or Tel Aviv or some other fanciful city. Here Jerusalem is shown to be spiritual no different than Babylon. 

[iamlamad]

35 minutes ago, breathoflife said:

you won't accept Zec. 11 where is the nation in the Last days is split in two with the northern kingdom have had ten crowns for the ten heads who have been reduced by three by the Lord leaving the required 7 unless I can be like John and get you and me in the spirit to travel I am out of luck. 

The rest of the questions I have answered over and over. So here one more time. She is shown to us three times her spiritual condition when first identified  as Jerusalem she is shown spiritually  to be Sodom and Egypt. This is when they say where their Lord was crucified. To men she looks just like men see literal Jerusalem. But the Lord lifts up the unseen curtain that stops us from seeing as God sees. The Lord knows her uncircumcised heart shows her to be apostate with the traits of these two enemies of God. When you get to Re. 17 we are shown the great city has not changed to Rome or Tel Aviv or some other fanciful city. Here Jerusalem is shown to be spiritual no different than Babylon. 

I think you are reading into Zec. 11 what is not there. Is this the verse you are thinking of?

¹⁰ And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.

she is shown spiritually  to be Sodom and Egypt.  Agreed.

as Jerusalem she is shown spiritually  to be Sodom and Egypt. This is when they say where their Lord was crucified.

Revelation 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

You are reading into this what is simply not intended by the Author. WHEN? John is just 3.5 days before the end of the week when the two witnesses are killed. That is the "WHEN." Jesus just identifies the city by telling us it is the very city where Jesus was crucified.  In other words, she is "Sodom and Egypt" because she has just been used (as home for the two beasts) to deceive THE ENTIRE WORLD!

The Lord knows her uncircumcised heart shows her to be apostate   It seems you have no concept of timing or what has been ongoing for the last 3 plus years: the Beast and False prophet have been deceiving THE ENTIRE WORLD from the city of Jerusalem.  Yes, SOME in Jerusalem will be deceived with the world. I think in that we are agreed.

Here Jerusalem is shown to be spiritual no different than Babylon.   Yes, but BECAUSE it has been the home to the Beast and False prophet, and of course Satan Himself who has possessed the Beast. It has become home to all the devils from hell, because their "boss" is in the city.

I think by this time, just before the end of the week, perhaps a month or two before the Battle of Armageddon, the Hebrews in the city are not in any kind of confusion: some will have been deceived and bought the lie that the Beast is god, but others know it is all of the devil but they are captives in the city. In other words, concerning the Hebrews, it is a divided city. I suspect the vast majority will have bought into the Beast's lies. Perhaps then your word "apostate" fits.

[breathoflife]

Let me understand. When Isaiah shows her unbelievably rich, powerful etc on the day of the Lord you say she might had all that before anti-Christ would have made her take the mark. With not a drop evidence pointing that direction. Now you are shown Israel being made two kingdoms one of which has ten kings but 3 of hat ten have been plucked out and you claim this kingdom with ten crowns, 7 heads on the end times is not the ten king kingdom you are always trying to figure out the identity. Can’t figure out why you might be missing it. After all how many 10 king nations have there been in history. Just one and it is the same nation shown to you here in Zechariah.

you do realize you claim the great city is spiritually Sodom, Egypt and mystery Babylon.and she is literal Jerusalem. So her excuse for being the harlot is “The devil made me do it.?”

then my favorite you reject the prophet Zechariah’s claim for the splitting of the nation of Israel into two kingdoms but now have come to give a nod toward the great city being split.

please take the passage from Zec. 11of the two shepherds and the splitting of the nation and place it on worthy and explain which parts I am reading into what the author isn’t meaning. Please don’t ignore this I need to hear this because if you are correct I need to know so I can examine all I believe. Thanks in advance

[Marilyn C]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 9:36 AM, iamlamad said:

Considering this verse:

Dan. 7:¹² As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

This verse seems to make this chapter an end time chapter. While the Beast that parallels the Rev. 13 Beast is killed, it seems the other three are kings whose life is spared for a while.

Any thoughts?

Hi iamlamad,

Would love to share what I have been taught. As you so rightly point out that verse makes those beastly powers at the end of the Gentiles reign. So we look at the emblems - Heraldry. O.Neubecker, Director of the `International Academy of Heraldry` and foremost authority in this field, explains -

`The appearance of a lion as a heraldic beast by no means indicates that it forms part of the native fauna of that country; its use comes from the significance attributed to it. The lion is the symbol of Royal Sovereignty and the eagle the symbol of Imperial Power.`

In combination we have the initial clue to the identity of this first contemporary super power to emerge. A sovereign Monarchy which exercised imperialistic power over a substantial area of the world. ie. An empire ruled by a Monarch.

Further revelation was given to Daniel. `As I looked its wings were plucked off.` (Dan. 7: 4) There is a fascinating double reference in this.

a) The empire lost its capacity for imperialistic expansion.

b) Part of the empire became a separate nation with the eagle as its emblem.

`It was made to stand on two feet like a man; and the spirit of a man was given to it.` (Dan. 7: 4)

Here is transformation. Until now the outlook and operation had been that of a powerful beast, imperialistically conquering, dominating and colonising. Suddenly there is a remarkable change to the higher qualities of the spirit of man. In Political language, co-exiting in freedom, peace and equality with its former dominions. An empire becomes a Commonwealth of nations.

regards, Marilyn.