The Unforgivable Sin

[turtletwo]

30 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

Jesus said if we so much as speak a word against the Holy Ghost, it won't be forgiven.  Had he not taken it to that extra level, I might agree, but I wouldn't want to take the risk.

@Firm Foundation Amen. Thanks for stressing that it is serious. I agree with what you say about not wanting to take the risk. I believe we should certainly never say anything against the Holy Spirit.  By the grace of God, I've not done this since being saved and have warned others against it. 

[lftc]

We make the simple difficult by not believing what we already know.

context includes the whole scripture.

Will a sinful man be allowed in heaven? No

How do sinful men (all men are sinful) get to heaven? Hint: "I am the way the truth and the life"

SO Jesus removes sin.  How?  Jesus died once for all.  Romans 6 Hebrews 10

So who is not saved then?  Those who have not trusted Jesus.  That sin remains unforgiven.

Hebrews 10 and Matthew 12 agree:

Hebrews: How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

The whole of Hebrews leading up to this only makes sense if the entirety of what I posted at the top of this is held in view, and of course the reasons that each statement is true.

Jesus spoke a lot of things to try to get people ready to understand the New Covenant.  Matthew 12 is simply Jesus preparing people to accept the New Covenant, which is COMPLETELY different from the Old Covenant (as explained in Hebrews).  The Old Covenant is about approaching God through the righteousness obtained through the complete obedience to the commands.  The New Covenant is about knowing God through faith (believing something without evidence) in Grace (being given something you don't deserve - such as salvation).  The New Covenant is possible because God died to FULFILL the righteous requirements of the Law - MERCY.  You can accept this gift and be saved.  Or reject it and NOT be saved.  The only unforgiven sin in the end.

You who imply that a person can say the wrong set of words and be condemned to hell:  be very certain, as people kill themselves over beliefs like these.  If a person say something that qualifies as "blasphemy" against the Holy Spirit, and they believe that Matthew 12:32 means they cannot be forgiven - THEN THERE IS NO HOPE FOR THEM and the rest of their life is merely waiting to GO TO HELL.  Someone above said that the "cessationists" blaspheme the Spirit, implying that this Matthew verse applies! Caution my friends, words are highly destructive!  Do not take a verse that confirms the beauty of the Gospel and turn into a weapon of terror, please.

[Firm Foundation]

8 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Context is everything. Jesus wasn't speaking to His disciples or believers. I don't believe it possible for a true Christian putting their whole faith and trust in the Lord Jesus, with the indwelling Holy Spirit, to commit such an act. I believe it's a stern warning to legalist's, atheists and God haters of forfeiture of any possibility of future redemption or forgiveness if committed. Much like volunteering to receive the mark of the beast. In both cases their fates are sealed.

There was a Christian I recently saw that did do it.  This person called the Holy Spirit evil.

[turtletwo]

6 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I don't believe it possible for a true Christian putting their whole faith and trust in the Lord Jesus, with the indwelling Holy Spirit, to commit such an act.

@Dennis1209 Thanks, brother. This is a good point you make and must explain why I've not spoken against the Holy Spirit in the many years I've been saved.

But I have come across so-called Christian comedians making jest of the Holy Spirit and have tried to warn new believers in Christ to have nothing to do with this evil. For we are not to grieve God's Spirit.

[Dennis1209]

4 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

There was a Christian I recently saw that did do it.  This person called the Holy Spirit evil.

Would you believe this person was a true born again Christian to begin with? 

John 10:27 (KJV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[Firm Foundation]

2 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Would you believe this person was a true born again Christian to begin with? 

John 10:27 (KJV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

It is possible and she regrets doing it.

[Jayne]

Here's the question to ask in the context of this story in the Bible.  Yes, Jesus said those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven to a group of people who had JUST done that very thing.

The question to ask is...….what exactly did they say?

They said that Jesus Christ, who had just driven a demon out of a man, was working under the power of a demon himself.

They attributed the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil.  They spoke these words in unbelief in Jesus Christ.

THAT'S the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.  Rejection of Jesus Christ by claiming an evil spirit from the devil gives him his power.

So for us to commit this sin today, we would have to witness a miracle of Christ and claim publicly that Christ is empowered by evil.

I have no idea how those who believe tongues have ceased can be accused of this sin.  It's not the same thing.

I don't know if tongues have ceased or not.  I believe in tongues.  Personally, I do not have this gift and am not actively seeking it.  But it is a real and Biblical thing.

But I do know that there is all kinds of faking it out there in some churches as they do not conduct the speaking in tongues as the way the Bible proscribes in 1 Corinthians 14 -  the whole chapter is very detailed as to who, how many, and under what conditions tongues are to be conducted in a worship service.  And the Bible DOES say that tongues will cease.  It just doesn't say when.

But here it is in a nutshell.   ²⁷ If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. ²⁸ If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

[Firm Foundation]

2 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Here's the question to ask in the context of this story in the Bible.  Yes, Jesus said those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven to a group of people who had JUST done that very thing.

The question to ask is...….what exactly did they say?

They said that Jesus Christ, who had just driven a demon out of a man, was working under the power of a demon himself.

They attributed the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil.  They spoke these words in unbelief in Jesus Christ.

THAT'S the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.  Rejection of Jesus Christ by claiming an evil spirit from the devil gives him his power.

So for us to commit this sin today, we would have to witness a miracle of Christ and claim publicly that Christ is empowered by evil.

I have no idea how those who believe tongues have ceased can be accused of this sin.  It's not the same thing.

I don't know if tongues have ceased or not.  I believe in tongues.  Personally, I do not have this gift and am not actively seeking it.  But it is a real and Biblical thing.

But I do know that there is all kinds of faking it out there in some churches as they do not conduct the speaking in tongues as the way the Bible proscribes in 1 Corinthians 14 -  the whole chapter is very detailed as to who, how many, and under what conditions tongues are to be conducted in a worship service.  And the Bible DOES say that tongues will cease.  It just doesn't say when.

But here it is in a nutshell.   ²⁷ If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. ²⁸ If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

Because Jesus expands on it to include speaking against the Holy Ghost in a different account of the same story.

[Dennis1209]

7 minutes ago, turtletwo said:

@Dennis1209 Thanks, brother. This is a good point you make and must explain why I've not spoken against the Holy Spirit in the many years I've been saved.

But I have come across so-called Christian comedians making jest of the Holy Spirit and have tried to warn new believers in Christ to have nothing to do with this evil. For we are not to grieve God's Spirit.

Only the Lord and the individual person knows if they are Saved or not; I can't or don't judge that. Making fun of, jest or a parody of the Holy Spirit and His work is asking for trouble.

[Dennis1209]

9 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Here's the question to ask in the context of this story in the Bible.  Yes, Jesus said those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven to a group of people who had JUST done that very thing.

The question to ask is...….what exactly did they say?

They said that Jesus Christ, who had just driven a demon out of a man, was working under the power of a demon himself.

They attributed the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil.  They spoke these words in unbelief in Jesus Christ.

THAT'S the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.  Rejection of Jesus Christ by claiming an evil spirit from the devil gives him his power.

So for us to commit this sin today, we would have to witness a miracle of Christ and claim publicly that Christ is empowered by evil.

I have no idea how those who believe tongues have ceased can be accused of this sin.  It's not the same thing.

I don't know if tongues have ceased or not.  I believe in tongues.  Personally, I do not have this gift and am not actively seeking it.  But it is a real and Biblical thing.

But I do know that there is all kinds of faking it out there in some churches as they do not conduct the speaking in tongues as the way the Bible proscribes in 1 Corinthians 14 -  the whole chapter is very detailed as to who, how many, and under what conditions tongues are to be conducted in a worship service.  And the Bible DOES say that tongues will cease.  It just doesn't say when.

But here it is in a nutshell.   ²⁷ If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. ²⁸ If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

That's exactly how I interpret the scripture. As far as people and churches of today speaking in tongues; I have a different view for the reasons, purpose and time period of speaking in tongues. I might compare it today with churches that handle venomous serpents. Gifts given to the Apostles and disciples for a specific reason and purpose, and concluded with the last Apostle John. But again, this is only one persons theological view and I may be wrong.