ignorance

[JohnD]

5 hours ago, nobleseed said:

it has become obvious to me that the christian church as a whole has not had many good teachers, that they are like little children that have not been taught properly.  people on this forum are even saying the bible does not have to make sense, that it is all taken on faith.  if we believe in nonsense then there is no truth and if what we confess makes no  sense then why would non believers listen to us.  God is a wise God and he wrote a wise book of truth and knowledge.  as it says the senseless man will never understand.  so stop u silly interpretations and understand properly with a sobre mind that is fruitful 

The Bible warns of false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, 

deceiving spirits, and people who lean on their own understanding.

2 Peter 1:20-21 is the place to start. Yet almost no one does or even knows

the Bible expects this of us.

2 Peter 1:20–21 (AV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The entire Bible came in this prophetic manner.

The entire Bible is prophetic.

Not one portion of the Bible is of any private (human) interpretation.

Humanity (human reason / human shortsightedness / etc. under the most honorable of circumstances) is satanic. 

Matthew 16:13 - 23 is the juxtaposition by the Lord Jesus of "the things of man" versus  "the things of God." The things of man he 

attributes to their source: Satan (which is why he called Peter Satan).

This is why the traditions of man actually nullify the Word of God / everything God is doing since the beginning to save man (Mark 7:13).

Now ask long established Christian denominations / Churches / pastors on what their authority is based and to a man they will say

the traditions of man (maybe they do not realize it)... "the Roman Catholic Church" one says, the Southern Baptist Convention another

says... etc.

Ask me?

Based on 2 Peter 1:20-21...

Jesus makes every believer a priest of God (Revelation 1:6 / Revelation 5:10 / 1 Peter 2:3-9).

Tell most folks that Jesus made you a priest and they will think you are nuts Why? Because 

the traditions of man are so entrenched in human thinking.  Well, you have to go to seminary,

etc. (they say). 

Indoctrination / brainwashing / programming?

Isn't that what the Sanhedrin did?

Jesus wasn't one of them so they rejected him and demanded all Jews (who want to remain a Jew)

to do so likewise. ← the leaven of the Pharisees which deceives Jewish people to this very hour.

2 Peter 1:20-21 / 1 Thessalonians 5:21 / 1 John 4:1

Acts 17:11 / 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Proverbs 25:2 / Deuteronomy 29:29 / Isaiah 28:9-13

These are the keys to the kingdom.

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, nobleseed said:

very well said and enlightened.  u certainly have the truth in your heart.  but how do we correct the errors that have polluted scripture and how do u teach the obstinate.  maybe it is up to God to correct and not men like us

Consider. The original texts were not corrupted. Some languages are much more precise and meaningful than others [cf. Hebrew & Greek to English]. Language evolves, understandings change and word meanings change [cf. Websters 1828 Dictionary vs. Oxford American Dictionary], not to mention legal words vs. the generally accepted word meanings of the very same word. 

Consider. We have a Jewish Messiah born a Jew, the promises of God made to the Jew's, God's eternal capitol will be in Jerusalem, the word of God penned by Jew's through the inspiration of God Himself, and the word of God entrusted and preserved by the Hebrew's and Jew's. In my opinion, God's chosen peoples understanding of scripture, word meanings and translations; far exceed that of gentile Hebrew scholar expert translations. The Septuagint, or the seventy, I consider to be exceptionally accurate from the copies of copies they had to work with.

Consider. I may be wrong but, I know of only four translations of the Bible [Septuagint - Geneva - Latin - King James] that are not copyrighted and precede modern Bibles of today. If I'm not mistaken, to receive a copyright, ones work has to be a minimum of 15% different in content and wording? If that's a fact; 15% + 15% + 15% + 15%... equals??? Prior to the 19th century if memory serves, there were only a few translations of the Bible. During the 19th century, dozens of translations of the Bible were made, and now I believe it's well over 100 translations; which one(s) are more accurate and reliable?? I have my own preference and leave that up to individual choice and debate. 

For anyone interested, a very short and accurate booklet on Bible Versions can be found free of charge, at the Stewarton Bible School website. If anyone wants their web address, just ask. 

Just my...

 

[lftc]

9 hours ago, nobleseed said:

it has become obvious to me that the christian church as a whole has not had many good teachers, that they are like little children that have not been taught properly.  people on this forum are even saying the bible does not have to make sense, that it is all taken on faith.  if we believe in nonsense then there is no truth and if what we confess makes no  sense then why would non believers listen to us.  God is a wise God and he wrote a wise book of truth and knowledge.  as it says the senseless man will never understand.  so stop u silly interpretations and understand properly with a sobre mind that is fruitful 

Once again, we are debating logic and the scriptures:

Logic runs into an assumption any way you take it, when dealing with the real issues of life.  We can set up logic problems for an academic excersize for beginning logic students that do not rely on assumption.  But as soon as you abandon the classroom and enter the real world, logic leads to faith.  Faith in your assumptions.

I see in the other posts you have done here that you have a strong belief in your logic.  Most of us that post on such topics do.  But we come to very different conclusions on some issues.  What unites us here is our assumption that we hold that God is real, that the author of the Bible is God and that Jesus is God in human form who died for the sins of the world, including abominations as you are referring to in your other posts.

A simple logic excersize is to use one of the many online tools available and look up abomination in one of the older translations. Here is some simple logic: 

• premise: Abomination has this definition in modern english:
  1. something greatly disliked or abhorred.
  2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation.
  3. a vile or shameful action, condition, or habit.
• premise: Abomination logically requires a object to operate against as it is a noun form of a verb.  Meaning that something or someone must feel the emotions that are descrirbed by the noun. 
  • example to ensure clarity: To a cat, carrots are an abomination.  To me, carrots are not an abomination
• 1st Subordinate conclusion - Intermediary premise: Abomination logically requires identification of the being experiencing the emotion
• premise: individual human opinion of state of abomination for a particular object is not consistent with other humans
• premise: individual human opinion of state of abomination for a particular object is not consistent with God
  • example for clarity:
    • some humans:  "I love gossip"
    • God (as stated in the bible): "I hate gossip"
• 2nd Subordinate conclusion - Intermediary premise: Bible must be source for definition of what is an abomination
• premise: many human actions are an abomination in God's opinion
  • proof by using subset of human actions
    • Proverbs 6:  16There are six things that the Lord hates,
      seven that are an abomination to him:
      17haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
      and hands that shed innocent blood,
      18a heart that devises wicked plans,
      feet that make haste to run to evil,
      19a false witness who breathes out lies,
      and one who sows discord among brothers.
  • Other proofs from the Bible can be found by a simple word search on abomination and it's synonyms
• premise:  I feel that my logic is superior, making me guilty of Haughty eyes
• premise: I post this rubric makeing me guilty of sowing discord
• premise: Abominations are sin
• premise: Sin separates people from God
• premise: Hell is separation from God
• premise:  (this premise is left out as a puzzle)
• CONCLUSION: I am not going to hell for posting this

What is the missing premise?

[missmuffet]

A hardened heart can dull a person's ability to perceive and understand. Sin causes hearts to grow hard, especially continual and unrepentant sins. No matter how many times we post the true word of God they will deny it. 

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, Tampered With said:

From my personal experience the "average Christian" does not really Study the Bible for him or herself on any really in depth basis, does not own a Concordance, and attends Church service to be spoon fed from the Bible to made to feel better about their lives. If given a basic quiz about the fundamentals of Christianity what percentage do you think those that identify as Christians could pass it? If asked, how many people that identify themselves as Christians have ever read the Bible cover to cover? How many know Jesus Hebrew name is Yeshua? How many "Christians" only go to Church on Easter Sunday? How many Christians are Christians in name only with almost no roots to their foundations?  I could go own and own but you get my meaning.  

It is often quoted that there are over one billion Christians in the world. My question is how many will stand for Christ when tribulation comes or oppression like the Syrian church is going through today?

 

 

 It is all in the Bible.

I think you have a valid point. Last poll I remember seeing, about 80% of the American population identified their religion as Christian. I'm not judging, but compared to some of the reasons you mention, and the fact America is in the shape it is in today, I would have to at least wonder about that.

Matthew 7:14 (KJV) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 

Based on what Jesus said in the verse above and elsewhere in scripture and His parables; I pray and wish for a revival, but I just don't see anywhere close to 80% of Americans being born again. And if the rapture would happen today, what percentage would be left behind?