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Isaiah43:25

Is God a God of grace first? or is grace the exception?

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1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

It does not matter if grace comes first. Grace is an essential part of who God is.

 Grace is what saves us (Ephesians 2:8). Grace is the essence of the gospel (Acts 20:24). Grace gives us victory over sin (James 4:6). Grace gives us “eternal encouragement and good hope” (2 Thessalonians 2:16). Paul repeatedly identified grace as the basis of his calling as an apostle (Romans 15:151 Corinthians 3:10Ephesians 3:27). Jesus Christ is the embodiment of grace, coupled with truth (John 1:14).

All great verses. I also like your thoughtful observation of each verse, very well put!

May I ask your thoughts on people He doesn't show grace to, or at least people who are shown less grace? For example, He chose Israel in the OT to have special blessings, but there were millions if not billions of people prior to Christ that He didn't choose who never had the opportunity to know Him and be redeemed from their sins? Or in the NT, of all the Pharisees, God chose to reveal Himself to Paul in a way that He didn't to hundreds or thousands of other Pharisees. 

I totally agree with you that grace is an essential part of who God is, but He doesn't show the same grace to all people. So I'm curious what you think about the people that receive less grace.

Thanks!

Edited by Isaiah43:25

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2 hours ago, Isaiah43:25 said:

All great verses. I also like your thoughtful observation of each verse, very well put!

May I ask your thoughts on people He doesn't show grace to, or at least people who are shown less grace? For example, He chose Israel in the OT to have special blessings, but there were millions if not billions of people prior to Christ that He didn't choose who never had the opportunity to know Him and be redeemed from their sins? Or in the NT, of all the Pharisees, God chose to reveal Himself to Paul in a way that He didn't to hundreds or thousands of other Pharisees. 

I totally agree with you that grace is an essential part of who God is, but He doesn't show the same grace to all people. So I'm curious what you think about the people that receive less grace.

Thanks!

Grace is a gift that saves us from our sins. Its not about who has more or less.

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3 hours ago, Isaiah43:25 said:

All great verses. I also like your thoughtful observation of each verse, very well put!

May I ask your thoughts on people He doesn't show grace to, or at least people who are shown less grace? For example, He chose Israel in the OT to have special blessings, but there were millions if not billions of people prior to Christ that He didn't choose who never had the opportunity to know Him and be redeemed from their sins? Or in the NT, of all the Pharisees, God chose to reveal Himself to Paul in a way that He didn't to hundreds or thousands of other Pharisees. 

I totally agree with you that grace is an essential part of who God is, but He doesn't show the same grace to all people. So I'm curious what you think about the people that receive less grace.

Thanks!

Thanks for your kind words but it is not from me. It is from the ministries of "Got Questions".
"

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19 hours ago, Isaiah43:25 said:

Hi Eman

I agree with you that hell is the default position. But what do you mean that we have to work towards finding His grace? I believe the Bible clearly teaches that His common grace comes to us without us working towards finding it (Matt. 5:45), and that His salvific graces comes without us working towards it (John 15:16). 

How do you understand these verses if God's grace doesn't come to us by His own choosing?

Hello Isiah43:25

Those two verses you quoted (Matt.5:45, John 15:16) at best infer that God will come to you, that God has chosen you for a purpose. But compared to those two passages, the Bible is rife with many passages detailing how you will go to Hell if you fail to do certain things, or run afoul of God's laws. I lean towards the preponderance of evidence, that the overwhelming basic messages contained within the bible is that you are doomed to Hell unless you fulfill God's dictates.

I state that you must come to God to acheive grace, not that God will come to you. God has laid out the groundwork, even described what is required to achieve grace. But God only lays out the roadmap, one must walk that path themselves. It is a test.

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On 11/22/2019 at 6:09 AM, Isaiah43:25 said:

A pastor I know has recently made the statement that God is a God of grace first. I haven't been able to speak with him about this yet, and that is a somewhat ambiguous statement. He said an author of a book discusses this, but i can't remember what book.

I have several questions I'd like to ask him to clarify what is means, especially the following:

  • What does this mean exactly?
  • What would he be a God of second?
  • What exactly are the implications of this?

As I've been pondering this, I seem to have come to the conclusion that grace is the exception, not the rule

Consider Matthew 7:13-14:  "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (NIV)

I understand that God has lavished extreme, overwhelming, wonderful, extravagant grace on us by forgiving our sins, you don't need to tell me that. The problem is that the majority of the 7.5 billion people currently living on this planet are destined for hell. And while God does show common grace (God makes the sun rise on the evil and the good, and He sends rain on the just and the unjust - Matt. 5:45), His saving or special grace is not the norm. 

I believe that God is Holy first and foremost, and just in everything that He does.

So my question is:  do you believe God is a God of grace first, or am I off base by concluding that grace is the exception, not the rule?

Hopefully this can be discussed outside of the predestination realm, but maybe that is the difference between these two thoughts. In one, God doesn't pick who is saved and therefore is holding out His grace to everyone hoping they'll receive it. And in the other He has picked who He is going to save which would make judgement the "rule" and grace the "exception". I would prefer to hear some thoughts that are outside of this predestination realm if possible.

Thanks!

Hi @Isaiah43:25, 

Okay, odd. Your user isn't coming up on the list of other Isaiahs. Hmm... Ayway, it's been eleven days since you've posted this. Has this minister yet to respond to you? Not even electronically? Answer his cell phone? Not had time step down from the pulpit to give you a straight answer yet? Most peculiar. Sorry he hasn't gotten back to you. I would think a few moments of time to explain his doctrine wouldn't slay him... Looks like some great replies have been sent for your query. God bless! 

Shalom, 

David/BeauJangles

1193605831_hmmsmiley.gif.189d8bbbede4b90db0d1f8af84f29054.gif

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8 hours ago, Eman_3 said:

Hello Isiah43:25

Those two verses you quoted (Matt.5:45, John 15:16) at best infer that God will come to you, that God has chosen you for a purpose. But compared to those two passages, the Bible is rife with many passages detailing how you will go to Hell if you fail to do certain things, or run afoul of God's laws. I lean towards the preponderance of evidence, that the overwhelming basic messages contained within the bible is that you are doomed to Hell unless you fulfill God's dictates.

I state that you must come to God to acheive grace, not that God will come to you. God has laid out the groundwork, even described what is required to achieve grace. But God only lays out the roadmap, one must walk that path themselves. It is a test.

 We must come to God, certainly. “ all of those that COME TO ME , in no wise shall be cast out.”  “ How I wanted to gather them up as a hen does it’s baby chicks......but they would not COME TO ME”

There is a slight sticking point, however...... “ NOBODY COMES lest the Spirit draw him”

People that think they will hold off on Salvation until THEY are “ready”.....perhaps on their death - bed, should note that the initiative for Salvation belongs to God— not you .

Edited by Blood Bought 1953
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13 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Hi @Isaiah43:25, 

Okay, odd. Your user isn't coming up on the list of other Isaiahs. Hmm... Ayway, it's been eleven days since you've posted this. Has this minister yet to respond to you? Not even electronically? Answer his cell phone? Not had time step down from the pulpit to give you a straight answer yet? Most peculiar. Sorry he hasn't gotten back to you. I would think a few moments of time to explain his doctrine wouldn't slay him... Looks like some great replies have been sent for your query. God bless! 

Shalom, 

David/BeauJangles

1193605831_hmmsmiley.gif.189d8bbbede4b90db0d1f8af84f29054.gif

Nothing. I mentioned I'd like to ask him for some clarity on what exactly he meant, but he's not responded. 

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17 minutes ago, Isaiah43:25 said:

Nothing. I mentioned I'd like to ask him for some clarity on what exactly he meant, but he's not responded. 

This is most unbecoming of a minister of the gospel. There seem to be far too many in this category. Perhaps he's sensing some sort of doctrinal dispute, and I think that's ridiculous avoiding discussing it with you. Sorry for this opinion, but the next time he steps down from the pulpit, he should keep on walking and seek employment outside of ministry. It's inexcusable to think you aren't worth his time. You most certainly are.    

Edited by BeauJangles
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1 CORINTHIANS 3:9 for we are laborers together with GOD you are GODS husbandry you are GODS building *******3:10-- according to the grace of GOD which is given unto me as a wise masterbuilder I have laid the foundation and another buildeth thereon but let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon *******3:11-- for other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is JESUS CHRIST 

TITUS 2:11 for the grace of GOD that ---BRINGETH SALVATION--- hath appeared to all men --2:12--TEACHING US --that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world 

ACTS 20:32 and now brethren I commend you to GOD and to ---to the word of HIS grace--- which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all them that are sanctified 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PSLAM 28:5 because they ---regard not the works of THE LORD---nor the operation of HIS hands HE shall destroy them ---and not build them up---

ISAIAH 26:10 let favor be showed to the wicked yet he will not learn righteousness in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly and will not behold the majesty of THE LORD 

ROMANS 5:21 that as sin hath reigned unto death even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by ---JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD---

PROVERBS 8:8 all the words of MY MOUTH are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PSALM 33:4 for the word of THE LORD is right and all HIS works are done in truth 

PSALM 71:17 O GOD thou hast taught me from my youth and hitherto have I declared thy wondrous works 

PSALM 73:28 but it is good for me to draw near to GOD I have put my trust in THE LORD GOD that I may declare all thy works 

PSALM 78:7 that they might set their hope in GOD and not forget the works of GOD but keep HIS commandments 

PSALM 78:10 they kept not the covenant of GOD and refused to walk in HIS law --78:11--and forgat HIS works and his wonders that HE had showed them

EPHESIANS 2:8 for by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of GOD --2:9--not of works lest any --MAN--should boast

 

*******PSALM 34:2 MY SOUL SHALL MAKE HER BOAST IN THE LORD---the humble shall hear thereof and be glad*******

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 

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17 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 We must come to God, certainly. “ all of those that COME TO ME , in no wise shall be cast out.”  “ How I wanted to gather them up as a hen does it’s baby chicks......but they would not COME TO ME”

There is a slight sticking point, however...... “ NOBODY COMES lest the Spirit draw him”

People that think they will hold off on Salvation until THEY are “ready”.....perhaps on their death - bed, should note that the initiative for Salvation belongs to God— not you .

This is where I disagree, because I do not believe any and all scriptures should be considered valid. If one was to follow their bible 100% literally, they would be in jail by 2020. I come from a more liberal Christian sect, where the message of Jesus was more important than individual passages.

And the overhwelming message in the Bible is "if you don't follow God, you will be seriously screwed over."

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