Why people really become atheist - and why you should let some of them go

[Nadjeschda]

As a word of warning: I am a German Christian, I do believe that some parts of the bible are propaganda by the catholic church (and that without gods direct help we will not be able to fully see through which) and some of you might hence not consider me a true Christian at all. (trigger warning): I in return would consider them to do a disservice to god by using dogmatic and absolutist interpretations of this religion (god's own country sounds like the idea of a narcicist with a big grandiosity problem frankly)

Now that I angered half (?) of the forum back to the atheist: I will repeat my idea that some people can not be converted (or easily convert to atheism) because they have psychopathic traits. Now psychopathy might be just science names for the devil, but I have no problem switching between the two concepts. The relation between "pseudopsychopathy" - or the devil - and atheism is now SCIENTIFICALLY confirmed (ROFL):

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0149989

Hence: Always when someone asks you "But what is the benefit of beeing a Christian" you should be susbicious. This typ of atheist is very likely not trying to search god and never will honestly - but has the sole purpose of weakening your faith as an intelectual gaim.

Because the question is a trap: beeing a Christian is not about hedonistic benefits it's about a desire to find a higher justice for the suffering of this world and all the people in it. If you have no strong such desire for higher justice for others because you have no strong empathy you will not stand the trials of god. One of this trials could very well be the historical fakes in the bible that can lead you into logical contradictions, make loose intelectual discussions with atheists and so on. But there you have it: Analyitical, emotionless people like those described in the article do not have very strong fears but one of there strongest fears is to look ridiculous in an intelectual discussion. They always have to be right.

So at least I seem to discover a larger plan here: even that some thing seems to be contradictionary and naiv in the bible it prevents people from seeking him for the wrong reasons (personal hedonistic advantage instead of peace and justice for all humanity).

That said in a country where the majority is still Christian faking Christian believes or at least living it to shallow bring advantages in the form of business connections, political connections and so on. There are hence a lot of psychopathic people in our rows.

Let this people leave when they say the see no logic and hence advantage in god. If god wants them to come back god will lead them. But there are a still a lot of good empathic people in the camp of the atheists that thinks atheism is about saving humanity.

Cite the study (atheist love scientific studies) and simply ask them if they may have been presented a simplified version of who is good and evil and how this relates to atheism. Than let them think and explain their ideas without judging.

If they still remain unconvinced point them to the following fact: Science has made enormous progress, atheism claims that atheism is what really drives this progress but even if that would be true (I doubt it) almost any progress can be used as arm. Nuclear science was first used for building arms than for energy generation as I remember it. Biotechnology is used to heal almost any illness now but at the same time it steadily increases our knowledge how to build bioweapons.

Now ask him or her: Can scientific progress really transfer into lastingly human progress if there is no progress in ethics?

If the atheists now says but humanism is the most progressed ethics I would answer: Maybe it was at some of the most darkest moments in mankinds history. But look at today: how can a group of people who on average has a lower interest in moral and a lower empathy build and maintain a moral for a world that gets ever more dangerous every day passing?

Than it is best to go away and let that sink in for a while. Because people like to sidetrack themselves about the really imoprtant questions. And you don't want that: you want your discussion partner to stay focused on the last question.

 

 

[Adstar]

42 minutes ago, Nadjeschda said:

As a word of warning: I am a German Christian, I do believe that some parts of the bible are propaganda by the catholic church (and that without gods direct help we will not be able to fully see through which) and some of you might hence not consider me a true Christian at all.

 

 

 

Please bring forward specifics in this statement.. What books of the Bible are "catholic propoganda" 

Oh i am an ex-catholic and i do not believe catholism is Christian.. But i ask for clarification in this issue to see what you believe..

 

Quote

 

(trigger warning):

 

I have hard skin i am not a pathetic snowflake i need no trigger warnings..

 

 

Quote

I in return would consider them to do a disservice to god by using dogmatic and absolutist interpretations of this religion (god's own country sounds like the idea of a narcicist with a big grandiosity problem frankly)

Who are the them you are tagging as doing a disservice to God,, Oh and PS:  not caping the G when writing the title God is i believe doing a disservice to God.. Not a major disservice but still a disservice..

 

 

Quote

Now that I angered half (?) of the forum back to the atheist: I will repeat my idea that some people can not be converted (or easily convert to atheism) because they have psychopathic traits.

True some find it harder to come to the LORD, but by the moving of the Holy Spirit even a psycopath can be saved..

 

 

Quote

Hence: Always when someone asks you "But what is the benefit of beeing a Christian" you should be susbicious. This typ of atheist is very likely not trying to search god and never will honestly - but has the sole purpose of weakening your faith as an intelectual gaim. Because the question is a trap:

Well my faith has never been weakened by atheists asking such questions.. And yes a person can have any number of motivations good or bad in asking such a question.. But i am assured that God knows the motivations of the questioner and will judge justly.. So that lifts off my shoulders the responsability of figuring out the questioners motivations.. So i can simply just answer the question and let the conversation go where ever it goes..

Quote

beeing a Christian is not about hedonistic benefits it's about a desire to find a higher justice for the suffering of this world and all the people in it

If One is a Christian then they already know there is a higher perfect justice.. That being God and His perfect justice.. No need to search to try and find something you have already found..

 

Quote

. If you have no strong such desire for higher justice for others because you have no strong empathy you will not stand the trials of god. One of this trials could very well be the historical fakes in the bible that can lead you into logical contradictions,

I am looking forward to discovering what you believe are examples of historical fakes in the Bible..

 

 

 

[JTC]

Hi Nadjeschda,

    Guess what, you didn't make me angry. I even agree with some of what you said although other parts I didn't quite understand. I remember another thread you started a while ago that also focused on atheists. I wonder why you have so many run-ins with atheists? Are you a student on a collage campus, is that the reason. I think all Christians are out numbered on any campus in any country unless it's a Christian University. There are too few of them even in the USA.

   I wonder if you mean by psychopathy what I mean. I researched psychopathy in the last few years because I think I know one. He grew up with a relative of mine which is why I know him. Did you know the MRI machine can now be used to identify a psychopath if he steps into it and cooperates with the Docs. Those are big ifs so it's going to be at least another decade before this technology will have a practical use. My understanding of a psychopath is he's a person probably born with a certain kind of brain defect that makes it impossible for him to feel empathy and probably sympathy as well. So he may appear to be a simple narcissist and in fact narcissism in one characteristic of a psychopath but the psychopath is a much more dangerous person. Psychopathy can be severe, such as in a serial killer, or mild, which is a person who uses everyone he knows for his own purposes. Lots of people do that but normal people feel guilty whereas the psychopath does not. Given all this I'd say you are right in assuming a psychopath is an atheist. I don't think they feel love so they can't love God nor their fellow man. But many seem to think they know God but it's certainly not the God of the Bible. Either the psychopath is fooling himself or he knows an evil being who told him he is a god. 

   Nadjeschda, I have one last thing to say about this. If you believe someone you know is a psychopath then avoid him like the plague. He will always hurt you. Also remember most psychopaths are very charming, especially with women. Some are quite intelligent and they can lie with a totally straight face. Avoid them, it's the only way to protect yourself.

[Repose]

Much of the OT is meant to be symbolism. The lamb of the passover being Jesus later on, the exodus of the Israelites out of Egypt (sin, oppression, whatever terms you like) and into the promise land (salvation). It all adds up and stacks up into the NT, a "foundation" of sorts. A stepping stone to the understanding and fulfillment of the NT. Besides which, how is God having a country narcissistic? He's God. He made it. He made everything. He made you. Kind of a big deal.

As a former atheist, I'm not certain I agree completely. After all, it's not just the question, but the manner in which the question is presented. If they ask it in a calm and civil manner, then it's only proper to respond in kind, calmly and with civility. If they're clearly aggressive or become aggressive, then yeah, there's no point in trying. Then yeah, most atheists tout the ideas of humanism or just personal moral tastes in general; I don't think that argument would be effective, not for everyone, at least.

I think it best simply to live as an example, answering questions calmly and stepping away if it goes south. I don't even think a guy needs an answer to everything; people seem to respect it more when you can honestly answer "I don't know for certain, I'm just a guy".

[appy]

A person does not become a Christian because of suffering and lack of empathy in the world. But because God first loved us and proved it by sending His son into the world to die on the cross, to pay the penalty of death for us. The debt that we could never repay. Death is the penalty for the wages of Sin. God in His great love for us, does not desire for any of us to live in eternity without Him. God took Christ's blood, and our faith as a means of bringing all to him that believe the gospel.

God is fully able to communicate to all peoples in every walk of life, no matter who they are or where they have been in life of the coming judgment and the dire need of turning to God to have their sin and guilt washed away. A person's health is not an obstacle standing in the way. All can come to him in the same way. By believing what God has said about His son, and the way to him. A person is not called a Christian, because he/she decides on it, or because he/she attends church or their parents went to church. A person is called a Christian because he/she has put their faith and complete trust in Christ and as a result, follow Christ.

The problem is not that unbelievers need proof of God's existence or the answer to why they should believe, but that if they do believe, it will change their way of living. They like their sins and don't want to change the way they live, and don't want to get to know God. Unbelievers don't like hearing the gospel, or that they are sinners because as they listen; their hearts are pricked and everything deep down in their hearts is laid bare and they are convicted of their moral guilt.

What unbelievers reject is the idea of a Creator who demands morality from His creation. And this is what unbelievers s are really arguing about.

[Neighbor]

Never let go! Always continue in prayer for anyone God has led you to be aware of and to share of His gospel with.

Never!

[missmuffet]

Why?

1. Ignorance

2. Disillusionment.

3. Anger

    Hurt 

They have had a very bad experience and they feel God has left them.

4. People want God to be physically found.

5. Pride

6. Self determination

People want to do as they please and control their own lives. 

We should not have an atheist as a best friend and spend a lot of time with them or take advice from them. As Christians we are to be kind to everyone. 

 

Proverbs 1:7 

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by missmuffet

[Nadjeschda]

On 11/26/2019 at 12:53 PM, JTC said:

Hi Nadjeschda,

    Guess what, you didn't make me angry. I even agree with some of what you said although other parts I didn't quite understand. I remember another thread you started a while ago that also focused on atheists. I wonder why you have so many run-ins with atheists? Are you a student on a collage campus, is that the reason. I think all Christians are out numbered on any campus in any country unless it's a Christian University. There are too few of them even in the USA.

   I wonder if you mean by psychopathy what I mean. I researched psychopathy in the last few years because I think I know one. He grew up with a relative of mine which is why I know him. Did you know the MRI machine can now be used to identify a psychopath if he steps into it and cooperates with the Docs. Those are big ifs so it's going to be at least another decade before this technology will have a practical use. My understanding of a psychopath is he's a person probably born with a certain kind of brain defect that makes it impossible for him to feel empathy and probably sympathy as well. So he may appear to be a simple narcissist and in fact narcissism in one characteristic of a psychopath but the psychopath is a much more dangerous person. Psychopathy can be severe, such as in a serial killer, or mild, which is a person who uses everyone he knows for his own purposes. Lots of people do that but normal people feel guilty whereas the psychopath does not. Given all this I'd say you are right in assuming a psychopath is an atheist. I don't think they feel love so they can't love God nor their fellow man. But many seem to think they know God but it's certainly not the God of the Bible. Either the psychopath is fooling himself or he knows an evil being who told him he is a god. 

   Nadjeschda, I have one last thing to say about this. If you believe someone you know is a psychopath then avoid him like the plague. He will always hurt you. Also remember most psychopaths are very charming, especially with women. Some are quite intelligent and they can lie with a totally straight face. Avoid them, it's the only way to protect yourself.

Thanks for your nice advice, but I already got serious harmed and most of my family too :( The damage such a person does, and even without regards to the fate of childrens is enormous. I am happy that you want to help me, even if you do noz agree with me in everything. If we would all agree on everything the world would be lame There might be some dimm light left in a psychopath that thinks he believes in god (in contrast to those that know they are faking their believe). But it is extremely dimm (I read the self confession of a psychopath who believed in god but as his equal.  Hint: god is unimaginable bigger and smarter than us). But considering the enormous potential of getting hurt when trying to save this strange soul, and that this really does not sound like the god of the bible, as you said ...

[Nadjeschda]

22 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Never let go! Always continue in prayer for anyone God has led you to be aware of and to share of His gospel with.

Never!

I pray for god saving my enemies, even those I suspect to be psychopathic. But in this prayers I as well tell him that I know it is over my skills to do this myself (which is why I ask his help) and that he shall forgive me this imperfection.

[Nadjeschda]

On 11/26/2019 at 3:41 PM, appy said:

A person does not become a Christian because of suffering and lack of empathy in the world. But because God first loved us and proved it by sending His son into the world to die on the cross, to pay the penalty of death for us. The debt that we could never repay. Death is the penalty for the wages of Sin. God in His great love for us, does not desire for any of us to live in eternity without Him. God took Christ's blood, and our faith as a means of bringing all to him that believe the gospel.

God is fully able to communicate to all peoples in every walk of life, no matter who they are or where they have been in life of the coming judgment and the dire need of turning to God to have their sin and guilt washed away. A person's health is not an obstacle standing in the way. All can come to him in the same way. By believing what God has said about His son, and the way to him. A person is not called a Christian, because he/she decides on it, or because he/she attends church or their parents went to church. A person is called a Christian because he/she has put their faith and complete trust in Christ and as a result, follow Christ.

The problem is not that unbelievers need proof of God's existence or the answer to why they should believe, but that if they do believe, it will change their way of living. They like their sins and don't want to change the way they live, and don't want to get to know God. Unbelievers don't like hearing the gospel, or that they are sinners because as they listen; their hearts are pricked and everything deep down in their hearts is laid bare and they are convicted of their moral guilt.

What unbelievers reject is the idea of a Creator who demands morality from His creation. And this is what unbelievers s are really arguing about.

Especially the last sentence is not fare from what I mean: If you have no empathy you usually have no desire for an universal moral and a god who demands an universal moral could only scare you. And can you understand and value Jesus sacrifice if you are a person whithout empathy? If you can't understand what Jesus did for us, can you love him? If you can not love him can you than become a Christian? This are no easy questions, I don t expect an answer because I don't know it myslelf. But my instinct would be that it could be difficult to be accepted by Jesus under this conditions.

Psychopathy is not defined as a health problem yet, but as a personality disorder. Someone who has a psychical illness suffer from it, but the psychopath does not suffer from his disorder, it is the others that do