The 8th king of Revelation 17

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, douggg said:

I don't see how - as king 7 is the future king.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

 

18 hours ago, Diaste said:

I have struggled with this over time. Heard a lot of different takes on 'five are fallen; one is,

On 3/29/2020 at 11:51 PM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

 

 

If we look at that word IS from ONE IS, it came from the word ἔστιν / estin.

https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/17-10.htm

You have all been misguided by the interpretation that this word IS refer to the time when John rcvd the vision. See for yourself the use of that word in many verses, dont get trap in your idea that IS is an english word which means at present.

https://biblehub.com/greek/estin_1510.htm

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by R. Hartono

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

 

If we look at that word IS from ONE IS, it came from the word ἔστιν / estin.

https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/17-10.htm

You have all been misguided by the interpretation that this word IS refer to the time when John rcvd the vision. See for yourself the use of that word in many verses, dont get trap in your idea that IS is an english word which means at present.

https://biblehub.com/greek/estin_1510.htm

 

I'm with you here. The context and the definition of key words does not mean, "..at present.." 

The word 'esti' in Rev 17:10 is; are, belong, call, come, consist.

So then based on the context that Revelation is prophecy and the beast is future, "...heis esti...", is more probably "...one of the same kind...", "...one that follows...", "...one that comes...", etc.

and does not mean, '...one in power at some moment in history..."

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, douggg said:

Hi Diaste,

There is not room for one king (6) to exist before king 7 in the end times.

Working back in time from Jesus's return...

Revelation 13.  The beast, the person has become king 8, 42 months left

Revelation 13:  The mortally wounded head, that is healed, king 7 the little horn.   With the killing of king 7, the prophecy of the 7 kings over.   Thus no crowns on the heads.

Revelation 12: Crowns on the 7 heads, king 7 will have come to power.   Completing the prophecy at the time the seven years begin (Revelation 12:6 added to Revelation 12:14 = the seven years)

Revelation 17: No crowns on the 7 heads, the prophecy of the 7 kings incomplete.  At the time of John, first century.

 

So we are saying the same thing? The 6th king before the short lived 7th and then the 8th who is of the 7 is all future from at least John's time and maybe even our time?

[Diaste]

11 hours ago, douggg said:

The bible does not say Apollyon is over anything but the locust creatures.    It also doesn't say he is part of the beast.

The bible just says that Apollyon is an angel who is king over the locust creatures.

 

Exactly! 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

So we are saying the same thing? The 6th king before the short lived 7th and then the 8th who is of the 7 is all future from at least John's time and maybe even our time?

I don't think we are saying the same thing.     This is what I am saying....

five fallen - John's past time

one is - John's present time

the other (the little horn) is not yet come -  John's future time

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king 7 (as the little horn) continues a short space of 42 months as king 8 (as the beast).

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

20 hours ago, douggg said:

The first beast of Revelation 13, as a whole, is the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7.

 

No, hes the Little Horn who CAME OUT of the Fourth Beasts Head !! If you read the Angel's interpretation there is a KEY POINT that lets us know this RIDDLE b y God can be deciphered, and in so doing we have to read between the lines {RIDDLES REQUIRE THINKING DEEP}. I am going to show you why hes a different Beast and HOW Gabriel gives us this riddle in a certain way that if we THINK DEEPLY, we can see it and say, Ohhhhhh, I see that now, its clever wordplay !!

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms{KEY HERE}, and shall devour the whole earth{Like Nebuchadnezzar it means the LAND IN QUESTION, which in this case is the Mediterranean Sea Region}, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them{Little Horn/Beast}; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The Fourth Beast is Rome, it will be DIVERSE from ALL THE KINGDOMS......But we already knew this from verse 3, WATCH !! THINK NOW !!

Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Son ALL the Beasts are DIVERSE from one another, as verse 3 says, so verse 23 is no any new INSIGHT at all, BUT....it adds a layer to God's riddle that throws everyone off, which was His intention, LOL, He wanted this locked up until the END TIMES pretty much. So verse 3 and 23 agree, all the Beasts were DIVERSE from  each other, thus verse 23 tells us  nothing we didn't already know.......BUT, verse 24 does give us this HUGE KEY !! It says HE {Anti-Christ} will be DIFFERENT FROM THE FIRST, {This means the FIRST BEAST from the Fourth Kingdom of Europe} thus The Anti-Christ is the SECOND BEAST from the Fourth Kingdom {Europe} and is DIFFERENT from the First {Rome} in that Rome was a Kingdoms passed from one King to another, whilst the Anti-Christ IS THE BEAST KINGDOM Himself !! 

We know this because of what verse 24 says, it mentions ONLY THE FIRST !! NOW THINK !! The First Beast here was Babylon as per Daniel 7, so since all  FOUR of the Beasts were DIVERSE according to verse 3, that means verse 24 is talking SPECIFICALLY ABOUT Rome..........BOOM..........The First Beast can only mean Rome, because ALL THE BEASTS were diverse, so this can only be about TWO BEASTS from the same LAND MASS on a map !! It says HE {Anti-Christ} was diverse from the FIRST............not from all the others !! 

[Revelation Man]

21 hours ago, douggg said:

It's composite body means, with 42 months left in the 7 years, the fourth kingdom has gained control of the territories once held by the other three kingdoms in Daniel 7.

The 7th head on the beast, that has been mortally wounded but is healed, is the little horn person.   He will have been killed and comes back to life as the beast person, that has the mouth like a lion.    

The Head that has been Healed is the 7 Headed Beast a FIGURATIVE Beast. The territories do not necessarily overlap as you presuppose.

21 hours ago, douggg said:

The heads are kings.    The horns are kings.    Of the fourth kingdom.

The Heads are Kingdoms and the LAST KINGDOM is a MAN who will never pass his Kingdom on to another so he is THE BEAST. 

21 hours ago, douggg said:

I hear all that.   But Revelation 17:10 says kings, not kingdoms.

 

No, Rev. 17 REDUCES the Kingdoms to Kings who have FALLEN. 

Just like Daniel chapter 7 says the FOUR BEASTS were Kings who AROSE out of the earth, that doesn't mean they were Kingdoms also brother. You see, on BOTH ENDS {Daniel and Revelation} God shows Kingdoms who AROSE via single Kings AND who fell via single Kings !!

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

21 hours ago, douggg said:

Antiochus was opposed by the Romans.    The prince who shall come must be of the Romans, Daniel 9:26.

Greece is the eastern most frontier of the EU.    From there, the little horn person will have staged his EU army before heading south and east (Daniel 8:9) into the middle east following Gog/Magog.   To gain control of the territories once held by the previous thee kingdoms, of Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greeks. (Revelation 13:2).

No, he must be a European, who has a Kingdom that looks just like the Fourth Beasts Kingdom. Rome had quite a few Emperors who were not from Rome. The prince who shall come will be of European descent, and Greece is in the E.U. Nowhere is it specified he must conquer the other three Kingdoms. 

21 hours ago, douggg said:

The bible does not say Apollyon is over anything but the locust creatures.    It also doesn't say he is part of the beast.

The bible just says that Apollyon is an angel who is king over the locust creatures.

Yes it does, you just have to understand the riddle brother. It says that the Demon Apollyon who arises from the Bottomless Pit kills the Two-witnesses. It also says the Scarlet Colored Beast arises from the bottomless pit in Rev. 17. 
 

 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Head that has been Healed is the 7 Headed Beast a FIGURATIVE Beast. The territories do not necessarily overlap as you presuppose.

I am not saying that the three territories overlapped everywhere.      Also, everyone knows the beast is figurative.    It doesn't need to be stated.

The Heads are Kingdoms and

the LAST KINGDOM is a MAN who will never pass his Kingdom on to another so he is THE BEAST. 

Now you are making kingdoms into kings.

The text says the seven heads and ten horn are kings.

The text does not say the seven mountains are seven kingdoms.

No, he must be a European, who has a Kingdom that looks just like the Fourth Beasts Kingdom. Rome had quite a few Emperors who were not from Rome. The prince who shall come will be of European descent, and Greece is in the E.U.

Nowhere is it specified he must conquer the other three Kingdoms. 

The little horn person will enter the territories of those three former historic kingdoms, following Gog/Magog, which those muslim countries, their armies will have been decimated.  Their populations despondent.   He will meet little or no resistance.

  Yes it does, you just have to understand the riddle brother. It says that the Demon Apollyon who arises from the Bottomless Pit kills the Two-witnesses. It also says the Scarlet Colored Beast arises from the bottomless pit in Rev. 17. 

The bible states the beast kills the two witnesses.    The bible says that locust creatures have a king over them who is an angel...of the botttomless pit.     But it doesn't say that Abaddon is associated with the beast.

When Satan and his angels are cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9, there will be a multitude of evil angels upon earth, cast down from the second heaven with Satan.

Satan, the falling star in Revelation 9, is then given the key to open the bottomless pit - which all kind of evil creatures, demons, angels come out.     Including the one angel, Abaddon, who is king over the locust creatures.

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The only person associated with the beast, king 8, is the un-identified person in the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8a.       That person is not an angel because the text says "was" and "is not".      Was alive but is dead.

It is talking about either a man, a nephillim, or an actual beast - which could die, not an angel.    Which I think is the serpent the actual beast in the garden that Satan used to get Adam and Eve to disobey God.    

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

[douggg]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, hes the Little Horn who CAME OUT of the Fourth Beasts Head !!

The fourth king (the fourth head) had fallen before John's time.      The little horn is one of the heads - kings - who is an end times king.   King 7.

The little horn doesn't come out of any heads of the Revelation beast.   He is one of the heads - head 7, king 7.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

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What you appear to be doing is making the one head (there is only one head) on the fourth beast in Daniel 7, as the fourth head  on the Revelation beast (which has seven heads).

But that is faulty logic.    Because it get convoluted.   And because the fourth head on the Revelation beast - had already fallen before the time of John.

five fallen (which includes the fourth head).     The little horn is not back before John's time, because he comes out from ten end times kings (the horns)

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the heads in Revelation 17 are not kingdoms.

the mountains in Revelation 17 are not kingdoms.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

On 4/3/2020 at 8:15 PM, douggg said:

I am not saying that the three territories overlapped everywhere.      Also, everyone knows the beast is figurative.    It doesn't need to be stated.

 

 

Evidently it does need to be stated, you, and others, try to say the MAN is killed anf brought back to life, the bible SPECIFICALLY says one of the Heads of the FIGURATIVE BEAST was killed, which tells us its speaking Metaphorically since there is no 7 Headed Beast per se. The Mediterranean Sea Region was only Conquered IN FULL by Rome, and the Beast came out of the Mediterranean Sea. This is why the fourth Beast is said to to ravage the region. 

On 4/3/2020 at 8:15 PM, douggg said:

Now you are making kingdoms into kings.

The text says the seven heads and ten horn are kings.

The text does not say the seven mountains are seven kingdoms.

You see what you want to see Douggg. Its not that complicated brother, especially when someone is laying it out for you. 

On 4/3/2020 at 8:15 PM, douggg said:

Now you are making kingdoms into kings.

The text says the seven heads and ten horn are kings.

The text does not say the seven mountains are seven kingdoms.

Gog means nothing to me. In Rev. Gog comes after the 1000 years.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:15 PM, douggg said:

The bible states the beast kills the two witnesses.    The bible says that locust creatures have a king over them who is an angel...of the botttomless pit.     But it doesn't say that Abaddon is associated with the beast.

 

You have a hard time following scriptures !! Rev. 9, the King of the Pit is Apollyon. Rev. 11 the Beast from the pit kills the two-witnesses, Rev. 17 the Scarlet Colored Beast who WAS..........IS NOT.......YET IS, arises from the Pit. Its not that difficult to follow. You refuse to follow what they say Douggg because it doesn't fit your narrative. I understand entirely.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:15 PM, douggg said:

When Satan and his angels are cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9, there will be a multitude of evil angels upon earth, cast down from the second heaven with Satan.

Satan, the falling star in Revelation 9, is then given the key to open the bottomless pit - which all kind of evil creatures, demons, angels come out.     Including the one angel, Abaddon, who is king over the locust creatures.

An Angel of God DELIVERS all the Trumps.......so you are WRONG, star is an Angel of God that is given the Key to lose Apollyon.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:15 PM, douggg said:

The only person associated with the beast, king 8, is the un-identified person in the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8a.       That person is not an angel because the text says "was" and "is not".      Was alive but is dead.

 

Hes the King of the Pit {=8} not a King on earth, that is why he has NO CROWNS !! But if I have told you that once I have told you 100 times !! Goes in and leaves as soon as it goes in.

Was as in was a BEAST {SCARLET COLORED BEAST.......GET IT? }...........IS NOT {A Beast because hes locked in the Pit}...............YET IS {He will be a Beast again upon his release.}.............WAS........IS NOT.........YET IS. Its pretty simple stuff.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:15 PM, douggg said:

It is talking about either a man, a nephillim, or an actual beast - which could die, not an angel.    Which I think is the serpent the actual beast in the garden that Satan used to get Adam and Eve to disobey God.    

 

You are all over the place....................I know what it means.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:29 PM, douggg said:

The fourth king (the fourth head) had fallen before John's time.      The little horn is one of the heads - kings - who is an end times king.   King 7.

 

The Fourth Beast of Daniel was Rome........so NO.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:29 PM, douggg said:

The little horn doesn't come out of any heads of the Revelation beast.   He is one of the heads - head 7, king 7.

 

But he comes out of the Fourth Beasts Head as per Daniel. Revelation shows that hes actually a 5th Beast, AND that there are 2 extra Beasts looking back through time, Egypt & Assyria.............plus the Anti-Christ = 4 + 3= 7.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:29 PM, douggg said:

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

The 5 are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece..............THE ONE is of course Rome............the come that is yet to come is the Anti-Christ and he rules for a SHORT TIME as in 42 Months.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:29 PM, douggg said:

What you appear to be doing is making the one head (there is only one head) on the fourth beast in Daniel 7, as the fourth head  on the Revelation beast (which has seven heads).

 

No, the Fourth Beast would be the 6th Head and the Anti-Christ who comes out of PAPA is the 7th Head. 

On 4/3/2020 at 8:29 PM, douggg said:

But that is faulty logic.    Because it get convoluted.   And because the fourth head on the Revelation beast - had already fallen before the time of John.

 

No he hadn't, Rome was still a Power for 200 more years. Even though Israel were a Nation NO MORE, Rome was still a Beast, the SAME BEAST that SACKED Israel. You might better read your history a little more brother.

On 4/3/2020 at 8:29 PM, douggg said:

five fallen (which includes the fourth head).     The little horn is not back before John's time, because he comes out from ten end times kings (the horns)

 

5 = Egypt and Assyria, so you must never read other people posts because I have been saying this for 5 years........in my life for more years than that !!

On 4/3/2020 at 8:29 PM, douggg said:

the heads in Revelation 17 are not kingdoms.

the mountains in Revelation 17 are not kingdoms.

 

Yes they are, to Say Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome are not Kingdoms just makes me SMH.........and you love to DODGE Douggg, I mentioned the 4 Kings in Daniel 7 and you chose not to "MENTION THAT" but it doesn't make the FACTS GO AWAY Douggg.  

Edited April 6, 2020 by Revelation Man