Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I think I saw that in the definition. 

Yowm: day. (unless the universe is really, really, really old)

"It doesn't mean day because the universe is 13.7 billion years old"

"It doesn't mean cup of water because the oceans are big."

This is fun.

You saw an English interpretation. I just showed, in another post that YOWM is used for a period of time, man must put the description of that time period in its place. Do you think Moses understood what 13.7 billion years was ? The Hebrew language had 4000 words at the time, we have 500,000 words in our English vocabulary. YOWM means a period of time INSERT time period via a DESCRIPTION. The KJV interprets it as a day, but its not a day, its a YOWM and they had no clue how long it took God to create the universe because it was UNKNOWABLE until these end times, but now that we have the ability to understand people want to close their eyes to the facts, well that's on you guys. 

When you get to heaven you will see the Universe was 13.7 years old by our time, there is no time in Heaven. 

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

According to world organizations that track this sort of thing, there are 100,000 who lay down their lives every year for the name of Jesus and their testimony of Jesus. I guess they aren't good enough for a rapture. You tell me where their pretrib rapture is when they are already dead at the hands of the ruler of this world?

 

Read 1 Cor. 15, the Dead in Christ RISE FIRST, then we which are alive and remain will CHANGE in the twinkling of an eye, which means we change to Spirit Men {DIE} and thus lose our corrupt sin flesh, just like those who are raised are raised INCORRUPTIBLE {without sin flesh of course} from the grave. 

So no one is not taken that were in Christ, I don't even understand your point there brother.

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

"So they come to Christ by FAITH ALONE, Jesus doesn't just show up and save them, why should he " No? But he does for you. You come to Christ by faith alone, as do we all, but Jesus shows up to save you and your elitist ilk. Not sure why He would.

 

No, he PROTECTS the Jews also, in Petra, and then shows up to SAVE THEM. He just keeps his promise and keeps us from the Wrath of God, the Churches work is done, why would the Bride need to stay on earth just to die ? Our work on earth is accomplished !! Those who must die are the 5 Foolish Virgins who missed the Marriage call, they had not enough LIGHT {Holy Spirit) to hear the call of Jesus, so they must then lay down their lives on earth like the first century Christians and others have done. I don't get why you guys are so gung-ho about being in the tribulation period. If you miss the rapture you will be in it. The facts are the facts. 

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3

This is profound as we are told there is nothing that separates us from one another. There are no barriers to oneness. This is not just for the faithful; this is all people. Alive or dead we are the Lord's. All appear before the Lord as He sits on His throne. No matter where we are in faith, or lack of faith, we are all the Lord's. 

But you go ahead and deny these overarching spiritual truths. Your choice. 

But you miss the WHOLE POINT of the chapter. Its about the Jewish Christians of the day trying to BURDEN the Galatians with THEIR CEREMONIAL LAWS and Paul was saying, this is NONSENSE O you FOOLISH Galatians, who has bewitched you that you have gone from FAITH to serving THE FLESH {Laws} thus he says there is not Jew nor Greek...........Hes telling the Galatians you don't have to be a Jew or keep Judaism's Laws in order to be of God. We are all one in God by FAITH ALONE. You miss the whole point Paul was making brother, and people then try to say, see the Church and Israel are one, that has nothing to do with this chapter brother.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Revelation Man

[dhchristian]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Revelation Man.

You need to become a "Genesis Man!" A yowm is "an evening and a morning!" The spin of the earth to the light God created!

The truth is that the Creation Week was indeed a six-day period of creation and a seventh day of rest - a Shabbat ("Sabbath") - occurring from Friday evening sundown to Saturday evening sundown.

He has no biblical foundation for his belief any longer because he now sees the his error. Mornings and evenings being the qualifier that makes all the yowm in Genesis 1 mean a 24 hour day. So now all his evidence is from the world of science and scientism. Hopefully this will get him to re-evaluate his position someday before its too late. Those who have put much time and effort into their views have a hard time reversing and repenting of them when they are exposed as erroneous... some never do for that reason.  

[OldCoot]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

According to world organizations that track this sort of thing, there are 100,000 who lay down their lives every year for the name of Jesus and their testimony of Jesus. I guess they aren't good enough for a rapture. You tell me where their pretrib rapture is when they are already dead at the hands of the ruler of this world?

that is a pretty spurious argument.   The reason the rapture didn't happen for them is because the time of the rapture has not come.  What about what happened to the Apostles?  Were they not good enough also?   what of what happened to many Christians at the hands of the "church".   That doesn't mean they will not be resurrected at the rapture as Isiah and Paul go into detail about.  

 

So they are good enough for the rapture, that they died before the rapture doesn't negate their participation.  Both dead and living righteous get to participate.   And that still doesn't negate the timing of the removal.  

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by OldCoot

[ENOCH2010]

To find out when the rapture is, just look for the next resurrection of a massive group of people spoken about in the Bible. Rev. 20 tells us when it is, the pre-trib doctrine has to add another resurrection that isn't in the Bible to go with their pre-trib rapture that isn't in the Bible either...… it's very dangerous to add or take away from the book of Revelation. 

[The Light]

12 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

Classic pre-trib doctrine, all opinion and no facts backed up by scripture.

Lol, nothing classic about what I believe. Why don't you provide the scriptural support on whether or not those before the throne had their new bodies. As I said, I am not aware of any scripture that offers inconclusive evidence.

Let me guess, classic replacement theology. Side note - the nation of Israel has been around since 1948.

[Last Daze]

Last trumpet.  Last day.

[WilliamL]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is 6000 years old.

They are accounted to be millions of years away only if the speed of light is a constant. Which is most likely is not.

The other theory is that light-speed has been slowing down on a hyperbolic curve: it was near instantaneous in the beginning, then rapidly slowed until reaching the near flatline velocity of the present day. If this theory is correct -- and there is both empirical evidence as well as ancient Hebraic doctrinal testimony for this -- then the stars are not as distant as they appear, as based upon present assumptions.

All this does not necessarily support creation in six 24-hour days, but does provide for the possibility of the age of the earth and universe to be many magnitudes of years shorter than billions of years.

There is no good reason to believe that light-speed did not degenerate along with the like degeneration of all other parts of Creation.

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, dhchristian said:

He has no biblical foundation for his belief any longer because he now sees the his error. Mornings and evenings being the qualifier that makes all the yowm in Genesis 1 mean a 24 hour day. So now all his evidence is from the world of science and scientism. Hopefully this will get him to re-evaluate his position someday before its too late. Those who have put much time and effort into their views have a hard time reversing and repenting of them when they are exposed as erroneous... some never do for that reason.  

Mr. 6000.......I agree with literally nothing you say, so why would I have thought you would never be a young earther ? 

Its why I stopped replying to you, I agree with nothing you say on the bible. I saw it as a waste of both our time remember ?

 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, OldCoot said:

that is a pretty spurious argument.   The reason the rapture didn't happen for them is because the time of the rapture has not come.  What about what happened to the Apostles?  Were they not good enough also?   what of what happened to many Christians at the hands of the "church".   That doesn't mean they will not be resurrected at the rapture as Isiah and Paul go into detail about.  

 

So they are good enough for the rapture, that they died before the rapture doesn't negate their participation.  Both dead and living righteous get to participate.   And that still doesn't negate the timing of the removal.  

 

It's not spurious. It's more than legit. The problem is that pretrib avoids persecution of the 'church' at the hands of the ruler of this world.

Part of the argument is that those 'left behind' are not good enough to be 'taken' and they must undergo purification. 

Then what of those dying today in the name of Jesus? If persecution is the wrath of God in the 'tribulation period' then why isn't the persecution experience of 100,000 a year wrath? Which pretrib says we are to avoid through the early exit.