Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[JoeCanada]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

There are plenty of scriptures that prove a pretribualtion rapture.

 

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Hi Light,

I've been away for a few weeks and am just catching up. 

How can there be a "pretrib' rapture (pretrib  meaning BEFORE the tribulation )....... if Jesus Himself tells us "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days" will be the gathering ......... ie the resurrection and the rapture?

Well, that's it. No further questions at this time.

 

[Last Daze]

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

I missed the part where I twisted anything. Please clarify.

Even if I did, you won't see it.

Last trumpet.  Last day.  It takes a pretty high-level word wizard to twist that into "pre"

[The Light]

1 minute ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Light,

I've been away for a few weeks and am just catching up. 

How can there be a "pretrib' rapture (pretrib  meaning BEFORE the tribulation )....... if Jesus Himself tells us "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days" will be the gathering ......... ie the resurrection and the rapture?

Well, that's it. No further questions at this time.

 

How can there be? There is both a pretribulation rapture and a pre wrath rapture.

In the pre trib rapture it will be like the days Noah, where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. It's when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The early summer grain harvest of Pentecost.

In the pre wrath rapture it will be like the days of Lot, where the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes. It is the fall harvest of the 12 tribes. There are 144,000 first fruits of this harvest.

Ok, if you can think of any questions relating to the pre trib rapture, I'm sure I can help.

[The Light]

13 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Even if I did, you won't see it.

Last trumpet.  Last day.  It takes a pretty high-level word wizard to twist that into "pre"

Last trumpet, last day is "pre" wrath.

It is the last trump, which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. You might need to study the Jewish feasts. Further it occurs on the last day. Then the wrath of God begins. See Rev 6 which is the coming that you see in Matt 24. The day of the Lord begins. No twisting necessary, just the facts.

BTW, I already see what you see, and I understand why it is incorrect.

Edited February 14, 2020 by The Light

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Last trumpet, last day is "pre" wrath.

I'm not pre-wrath.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

BTW, I already see what you see, and I understand why it is incorrect.

I very much doubt it.  Word alchemy / transmutations won't work on reality.  Suffice it to say that pretrib will be proven wrong in time.

 

 

 

[The Light]

4 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

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Help us out.  The phrase,  "immediately AFTER  the trib of those days..."  supports a prewrath rapture,  but not a pretrib rapture.

So far, we agree.

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   This means that you believe that tribulation does not equal wrath. 

Still we agree.

Quote

 But you (mistakenly?) used that to scripturally support a pretrib rapture.

I am not aware of using that scripture to support a pre trib rapture. Read through my posts again show me what post.

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   With that being said, what is your basis then for a pretrib trib rapture?  I.e., some believers go pre-trib,  and some prewrath, after the trib starts.   On what basis? 

1. Based on the fullness of the Gentiles coming in. (Pre trib rapture of the church) Then God turning His attention to His elect and keeping His promise. (Pre wrath rapture of the 12 tribes) Only the remnant of believers go through the wrath of God and they do so in a place of protection.

Rom 11

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

2. Based on what happens in the 70th week of Daniel

3. Based on the feasts of Israel

4. Based on 1st fruits guaranteeing harvests

5. Based on the days of Noah and the days of Lot

6. Based on the kings and priests before the throne in Rev 5 before any seals are opened.

7. Based on the GOODMAN not knowing what day He will come, and yet others are told that that day will not take them unaware. They will be looking up for their redemption

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  Do you believe that some believers go to heaven before  Satan is cast out of heaven?

I do. Based on Rev 5, Rev 6 and Rev 12

 

[The Light]

8 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

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I'm not pre-wrath

Never said you were. I said the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets and the last day happens before the wrath of God begins. That's pre wrath.

You said how could last trump and last day equal PRE. I merely explained it.

Quote

I very much doubt it.  Word alchemy / transmutations won't work on reality.  Suffice it to say that pretrib will be proven wrong in time.

If that were so, the GOODMAN would not be instructed to watch and be ready.

 

 

 

[Alive]

On 2/12/2020 at 7:02 PM, OldCoot said:

Yes, it was spurious, simply because you are not well versed in the topic and throwing out anything that you think will stick.

For one, classic pre-millennial Pre-trib adherents state that all who are in the Body... redeemed by Messiah and sealed by the Holy Spirit... will make the trip.   None of this goofy "not good enough" protestant purgatory nonsense.   All who are redeemed get caught up.  Yes, even folks like you who seem to despise the idea, if they are actually redeemed and in the body of Messiah.  And I am not sure you will be kicking and screaming to stay behind when that time comes.  

Those that get left behind never had their redemption passport to make the trip.  Now that will probably include some in many congregations simply because showing up regularly to the 1st Overcoming Baptist Church every week and even being in the music  ministry and children's ministry does not make one born again and redeemed.

Now of those that are left behind, because they never were in the body of the redeemed likely will have a change of heart and mind after witnessing the disappearance of many people.   I believe it was in the Book of Enoch that very thing was stated as not only will happen, but that one fo he reasons for the removal is to provide a wake up call to those that are not redeemed.  Unfortunately, those that do realize what happened and turn to the Lord will have a price to pay for their procrastination.  That is the tribulation saints.

Those dying today that are redeemed, they will make the trip also.  Remember, both Paul and Isaiah said both the dead and living righteous will be taken.   While they may be dying "in the name of Jesus", the key component to that is whether they are "in Jesus".   Lots of folks have died over the years when other folks thought they were Christians and killed them.  But that doesn't mean in reality they actually were.  

Yeshua was quite fond of referencing the Hebrew wedding and in scripture it is mentioned that redeemed are the bride of Messiah.  If one studies the minute details of the 1st Century Hebrew marriage, it would become crystal clear why the bride must be removed early on.  Yeshua wasn't just referring to the Hebrew wedding just because one time He got a kick out of turning the water to wine and is looking forward to it again.  

@OldCootdo you believe a pre-7 or mid 7 taking up? Can you explain why for me?

[The Light]

31 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

In your response to Enoch 2010's  question to give scriptures that support a pretrib rapture,  you quoted the "after the tribulation of those days...".  Your later response was that it does not support pretrib.   That was what i meant by mistaken...[afterwards you made a retraction???] Yes or no?  If not,  I did not see that as pretrib support, since it was AFTER. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

Yeah, that was a pretty pitiful explanation. I was trying to show the difference between 1 thes 4, which I believe is referring to the pre trib rapture and 1 Cor 15 which I believe is referring to the pre wrath rapture. (Which occurs immediately after the tribulation)

1 Thes 4 happens with the trump of God, which is the voice of God. Additionally, the Lord himself descends.

1 Cor 15 happens at the last trump, which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. The Lord sends his angels to gather the elect.

Basically, I don't believe that these two verses refer to the same event. There are two raptures, one pretrib and one prewrath.

[ENOCH2010]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

How can there be? There is both a pretribulation rapture and a pre wrath rapture.

In the pre trib rapture it will be like the days Noah, where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. It's when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The early summer grain harvest of Pentecost.

In the pre wrath rapture it will be like the days of Lot, where the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes. It is the fall harvest of the 12 tribes. There are 144,000 first fruits of this harvest.

Ok, if you can think of any questions relating to the pre trib rapture, I'm sure I can help.

You are the only pre-tribber I know of that is willing to add to scripture the pre-trib rapture for the good Christians, then add another for the not good enough Christians to come on along later. Still the "dead in Christ" rise at the second coming (the first resurrection Rev.20) are you going to put another rapture here.