The Chronological Order Of The Revelation

[Revelation Man]

On 5/1/2020 at 10:53 PM, not an echo said:

Beginning with chapter 11, there is a difference in the manner in which John records things.  This difference is closely related to what he writes concerning the 7th Trumpet in verses 15-19, for what he here records is like a concise overview of what will be taking place throughout the next several chapters.  In accord with the way the Bible's chapters are divided (which I attribute to the hand of God!), it appears that after John is given the brief overview of this period, he uses an overlapping method of recording all of the details of it---again, without fail.  Following is an illustration of the overlapping method in which chapters 11 through 20 are laid out:

 

I wouldn't call it an OVERVIEW per se, he was also shown in Rev. 11 the Rev. 9 2nd Woe. This whole chapter is not an overview per se, though it does that, but only an overview of the Rev. 16 Vials. What Rev. 11 basically is, is a SEPARATED OUT VIEW of the Two-witnesses Ministry on earth for 1260 days PLUS the Final Woe which they PRAYED DOWN. {God gave them POWERS to bring all manner of Plagues and to shut out the rain etc. etc.}

Rev. 17 and 18 start when the Anti-Christ comes forth, at the 1st Trump, the First Seal FORETELLS it. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Revelation Man

[not an echo]

On 5/2/2020 at 4:57 AM, douggg said:

not an echo, the visuals are not showing on my screen.   Only blank squares.    Are they showing on yours?

If not, it may be because you saved your images in png format.    Try saving your images in the jpg format instead.

Hi douggg,

Concerning the first ten squares (or rectangles), as long as they are going left to right, in single fashion, this is all I'm trying to do with this illustration.  I'm just showing how straightforward the first 10 chapters are laid out.

Similarly, concerning the next ten squares, as long as they are going left to right in an ascending, overlapping fashion, I'm just showing the overlapping method in which chapters 11 through 20 are laid out.  Understanding John's use of this overlapping method is an especially important key to understanding this section of The Revelation.  I am planning to start a new thread concerning the period of the 7th Trumpet, hopefully in the next few days.  For now, the sounding of the 7th Trumpet is much more than an event---it is an event that heralds a very significant period.

And finally, the last two squares, as long as they are joined together, that's all I'm seeking here, is to show how these two chapters form a unit.

Does this represent what you are seeing on your screen?

Edited February 1, 2023 by not an echo

[not an echo]

On 5/2/2020 at 4:57 AM, douggg said:

What you still have to get into is making a timeline chart of the seven years.

This is what I just wrote to another poster at another forum...

"You come into a forum, trying to sell your view, but you have no product on the show room floor. You are like a salesman who talks all about the leather seating, the fit and finish, the tinted windows, and aerodynamic shape - but has no pictures nor model of his car on the show room floor. And he should expect people to buy into his verbalization?

I have a chart of the 7 year 70 week.  And another chart of the anytime rapture. You are not presenting a product for people to see."

Hi again douggg (and all),

I'm really pressed for time tonight, but I wanted to share another chart I have developed.  I will make just a few comments at this time, and then more later.  This chart dovetails with everything I have ever shared on Worthy Christian Forums.  Since I have learned how to post charts and illustrations on the forum, I have added some here and there.  I'm really excited about going back and adding some to the opening posts on some of my other threads.  When I first joined this forum, I tried to add an illustration and wasn't able, so I didn't try again.  Now I'm noticing the paperclip and "Drag files..." prompt, which I never noticed until a few days back.  Has this prompt always been there?  Annnyway, here's the other chart.  Hope it helps you (and everyone) understand better what I am seeing:

As I am seeing things, this chart illustrates what is very basic.  Concerning the intricacies of Daniel's 70th Week, which seems to interest you more douggg, the 1290 days and the 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 are arguably more involved, and there are other days of concern.  Sometimes I have wondered if those of us on this side of the "little book" being opened (Rev. 10/the little book of Daniel/Dan. 12:4, 8-10 with Matt. 24:15) will truly have the exactness of how these days fall revealed to us.  I do see the confirming of the covenant (Dan. 9:27) as being the main point of reference for things relating to Daniel's 70th Week.  If I were called to "go out on a limb,"  based upon my interpretation of the wording of Daniel 12:11, I feel fairly comfortable about the 1290 days being a count backward from the end of the week.  As I see it, "the abomination that maketh desolate" being "set up" does not have to take place at the exact half way point, for it to occur "in the midst of the week" (Dan. 9:27).  On the 1335 days (Dan. 12:12), I know the options, but I'm more reluctant to go out on that limb, at this time anyway.  In any case, whatever we may see differently concerning the way the days fall relating to Daniel's 70th Week, I see the rapture of the Church occurring well beyond it's beginning, at the very least, five months plus (Rev. 9:5, 10, 15).  My main burden (by far) has been to show what I feel that Scripture reveals concerning the timing of the rapture in relation to other events.  Of course, much more can be said, but got to go for now.

Edited January 27, 2023 by not an echo
to reset illustration

[douggg]

1 hour ago, not an echo said:

                         

 

not an echo, place the abomination of desolation (AOD) on the chart and at it's proper place.       You have a flaw on your chart with your label "Christ sign return"  and the AOD placement is going to bring it to your attention.

Reading through Matthew 24 - It's AOD, then the great tribulation, Jesus coming in the clouds

Reading through Matthew 24 - It's also AOD, then the tribulation of those days, Sign of Jesus in heaven.

 

Jesus's return and the sign of the Son of Man in heaven - are at the end of the 7 years.

______________________________________________________________________________________

the great tribulation is 1335 days long

the tribulation of those days is 1290 days long

The tribulation of those days is contained within the great tribulation, as the first 1290 days of the great tribulation.

* to know where to put the beginning of the great tribulation on a chart - it is necessary to work back from the end of the 7 years.    Just subtract 1335 days from the day Jesus returns, day 2520.    And you will get day 1185 on the chart - that is where the AOD goes on the chart.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

what program are you using to make your chart?

On my chart, I did not use the straight singular horizontal line method - because it is impossible to put all of the information with annotations using the straight singular horizontal method (as you are doing).   And the chart still be readable in a post.

What I used was a stair stepping method which gave me room for all of the annotations....

excerpt...

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by douggg

[douggg]

2 hours ago, not an echo said:

Does this represent what you are seeing on your screen?

I can't do anything with it, because John wrote what he saw in the order he saw it.   

John did not re-assemble the different visions later on into a manuscript.    For the purpose to present a start to finish sequence of the events in the visions.    

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by douggg

[not an echo]

On 5/2/2020 at 1:25 PM, Revelation Man said:

On 5/1/2020 at 10:53 PM, not an echo said:

Beginning with chapter 11, there is a difference in the manner in which John records things.  This difference is closely related to what he writes concerning the 7th Trumpet in verses 15-19, for what he here records is like a concise overview of what will be taking place throughout the next several chapters.  In accord with the way the Bible's chapters are divided (which I attribute to the hand of God!), it appears that after John is given the brief overview of this period, he uses an overlapping method of recording all of the details of it---again, without fail.  Following is an illustration of the overlapping method in which chapters 11 through 20 are laid out:

 

I wouldn't call it an OVERVIEW per se, he was also shown in Rev. 11 the Rev. 9 2nd Woe. This whole chapter is not an overview per se, though it does that, but only an overview of the Rev. 17 Vials. What Rev. 11 basically is, is a SEPARATED OUT VIEW of the Two-witnesses Ministry on earth for 1260 days PLUS the Final Woe which they PRAYED DOWN. {God gave them POWERS to bring all manner of Plagues and to shut out the rain etc. etc.}

Rev. 17 and 18 start when the Anti-Christ comes forth, at the 1st Trump, the First Seal FORETELLS it. 

Hello Revelation Man,

I think you may have misunderstood me on something.  What I am calling "a concise overview" is what John records concerning the 7th Trumpet in Rev. 11:15-19.  I see the sounding of the 7th Trumpet as being much more than a singular event.  I see the sounding of the 7th Trumpet as heralding a period of time that takes in all of chapters 12-20.  Now again, while there are some overlaps of information in these chapters, there is a definite pattern and progression of events.  Briefly, the main events of these chapters can be expressed as follows:

THE SEVENTH TRUMPET PERIOD

(REV. 12)---SPIRITUAL REALM SCENE OF SATAN'S ACTIVITY DISCLOSED

(REV. 13)---PHYSICAL REALM SCENE OF SATAN'S ACTIVITY DISCLOSED

(REV. 14)---TRIUMPH OF THE 144,000 SAINTS DISCLOSED

(REV. 15)---TRIUMPH OF DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK MARTYRS DISCLOSED

(REV. 16)---SEVEN VIALS OF GOD'S WRATH DISCLOSED

(REV. 17)---JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT WHORE (Satan's Religious Kingdom) DISCLOSED

(REV. 18)---JUDGMENT OF BABYLON THE GREAT (Satan's Political Kingdom) DISCLOSED

(REV. 19)---THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST DISCLOSED

(REV. 20)---MILLENNIAL REIGN OF CHRIST AND LAST JUDGMENT DISCLOSED

Concerning the illustration that I used on page 6 of this thread (below), I include the ten chapters of 11-20 in this overlapping section, because John's overlapping method of recording things begins in chapter 11.  This is seen by what I refer to as the overview relating to the 7th Trumpet period (Rev. 11:15-19) and also by the listing of the two 3-1/2 periods of Daniel's 70th Week (Rev. 11:2-3).  Whereas I see the first 3-1/2 years as finishing out the period of the 6th Trumpet, I see the last 3-1/2 years as beginning with the sounding of the 7th Trumpet (Rev. 11:15ff) and taking in all of chapters 12-19, until Christ's Second Coming and the Battle of Armageddon, which closes Daniel's 70th Week.  Concerning the "woe" of this 7th Trumpet period, the woe of all woes with be the eternal woe of all of the lost, shown at the last of the 7th Trumpet period with the Last Judgment (cp. Rev. 11:18 with Rev. 20:11-15).

While I understand what you are saying concerning the chapter 9 second "woe" being also shown in chapter 11, realize that there is no overlap of chapter 9 with chapter 11, but a continuation, AFTER A VERY IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT.  The important development is the completion of the world stage reset for Daniel's 70th Week.  This is the reason why for the interlude of chapter 10, which at this time shows the "little book open" (vs. 2), which is the little book of Daniel (Dan. 12:4, 8-10).  Bringing some other things together, what has happened from the time of the rapture (6th Seal/Rev. 6:12-7:17) up until the opening of the "little book" of Daniel (Rev. 11:2) amounts to a world stage reset for Daniel's 70th Week.  I would like to encourage you to look at my thread, "The First Four Trumpets," as these and the 5th Trumpet also have to do with the world stage reset for Daniel's 70th Week, a very huge fulfilling of prophecy.

I've got to go, but concisely summed up, when the world's stage is all readied, the little book of Daniel will be opened, and then Daniel's 70th Week will begin, as evidenced in the opening verses of chapter 11, even verse one (cp. II Thess. 2:4).

Edited August 24, 2022 by not an echo

[Revelation Man]

On 5/5/2020 at 11:19 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Revelation Man,

I think you may have misunderstood me on something.  What I am calling "a concise overview" is what John records concerning the 7th Trumpet in Rev. 11:15-19.  I see the sounding of the 7th Trumpet as being much more than a singular event.  I see the sounding of the 7th Trumpet as heralding a period of time that takes in all of chapters 12-20.  Now again, while there are some overlaps of information in these chapters, there is a definite pattern and progression of events.  Briefly, the main events of these chapters can be expressed as follows:

THE SEVENTH TRUMPET PERIOD

(REV. 12)---SPIRITUAL REALM SCENE OF SATAN'S ACTIVITY DISCLOSED

(REV. 13)---PHYSICAL REALM SCENE OF SATAN'S ACTIVITY DISCLOSED

(REV. 14)---TRIUMPH OF THE 144,000 SAINTS DISCLOSED

(REV. 15)---TRIUMPH OF DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK MARTYRS DISCLOSED

(REV. 16)---SEVEN VIALS OF GOD'S WRATH DISCLOSED

(REV. 17)---JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT WHORE (Satan's Religious Kingdom) DISCLOSED

(REV. 18)---JUDGMENT OF BABYLON THE GREAT (Satan's Political Kingdom) DISCLOSED

(REV. 19)---THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST DISCLOSED

(REV. 20)---MILLENNIAL REIGN OF CHRIST AND LAST JUDGMENT DISCLOSED

I don't know what the Cards in White show, I see nothing. But, you get off tracked here by not realizing all of those chapters save 16 well, maybe 15&16 which are like the same thing as per timing, one happens in heaven and the other on earth, are Parenthetical Chapters that fit into the Judgment Chapters. 

Rev. 6 the Seals are Opened and Jesus basically Prophesies in real time what is about to befall mankind with each Seal, but they don't start until the 1st Trump. Revelation 7  is the Jews {144,000} Fleeing, Judea they are in the millions, 144,000 is a NUMBER that represents the FULL NUMBER THEREIN that Repents. Thus the number 12 = fullness and thus 12 x 12,000 = ALL Israel [who repent, then flees Judea]. 

Rev. 8, 9, 15&16 is the full 42 months of the Beasts reign. PERIOD, it ends at Rev. 16:19, the Angel even says IT IS DONE. The other Chapters are Parenthetical Citations, meaning they are INTERWOVEN with these 4 Judgment Chapters. 

Rev. 10 is a FLASH FORWARD to the 7 Thunders {Trumps} and how there will be TIME NO MORE when the 7th Thunder {Trump} sounds. Its a paradigm change so to speak. Mankind no longer rules, Jesus and God will.

Rev. 11 is the 1260 days Ministry of the Two-witnesses, they show up BEFORE the Beast and thus DIE BEFORE the Beast dies.

Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 ALL Start with the First Trump in Rev. 8, the Day of the Lord God's Wrath AND the Beasts Reign cover the exact same 42 months or 1260 days on earth. We know this via scripture, the Dragon chases the Woman 1260 days in Rev. 12, the Beast ARISES to power in Rev. 13 [1260 days, we know that also]. Rev. 17 and 18 is where we have to dig deep, the Harlot is AL FALSE RELIGION of All Time being Judged, God uses the Anti-Christ and his Kings to do this, so it has to start at the time he goes forth to Conquer, he REPLACES her with the False Prophet Beast over RELIGION. There can be no Islam, no Buddhism etc. etc. because the Beast must be Served/Worshiped by ALL MEN. Rev. 18 is nothing more than God painting a picture of the WHOLE WORLD {Babylon} being Judged by those Trumps and Vials over a 42 month period of time, DESTROYING the ECONOMIES of this wicked world and those merchants that trusted in this wicked world. 

Revelation chapter 14 is the Harvest Chapter.............The Wheat {Israel} and the Wicked Tares {World} grow TOGETHER unto the end, the Church is Raptured in verse 14 in a sorta Soliloquy. It thus covers the FULL 7 Year period. Likewise, Rev. 19 covers the FULL 7 Year period, the Rapture to the Second Coming.

Rev. 20, 21 and 22 are all in the 1000 year reign or later, of course. 

You see, I don't thinks hes OVERLAPPING PER SE..........I think hes departmentalizing the WHOLE Book of Revelation. Maybe God wanted Rev. 15 and 16 out of order to keep us from understanding it until the end, or whatever, it is what it is........but here is what John did.

Rev. 1 Jesus seen in all his GLORY = the things you ave SEEN. 

Rev. 2 and 3 = the Church Age or the things which ARE.

Everything after Rev. 4:1 are the things with will be HEREAFTER.

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened.

Rev. 6 and 7 is Jesus opening the Seals, Prophesying what is coming in a mere few days and the Jews FLEEING Judea whilst God orders the Trumpet Judgments to be HELD UP until they reach safety {SEALED IN THE HEAD} in Petra. 

Rev. 8, 9, 15&16 are the Judgments of God on Mankind over a 42 month period of time, better know as the Day of the Lord {DOTL}.

Rev. 10 is a FLASH FORWARD. Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses. Rev. 12 is the Dragon chasing the Woman {See Rev. 7, shes Fleeing Judea} Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ ARISING to rule for 42 months. Rev. 14 is the Harvest Chapter. Revelation 17 is the Harlot (False Religion) Chapter. Rev. 18 is the Destruction of Babylon {Whole World} via God's Wrath. Rev. 19 is the Marriage AND Return/Second Coming of Jesus and his bride to the Marriage Supper on earth {Armageddon}.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Mussa Jakotis]

REVELATION MAN SEAMS TO HAVE RE-ASSEMBLED EVERYTHING IN BOOK OF REVELATION AND THIS CAN CAUSE CONFUSSION.LETS ALLOW THE LORD TO HELP US UNDERSTAND ISSUES  THAT CONCERN END TIME.ITS REVELATION THAT NEED TO COME FROM DEEP PRAYERS  AND READING OF THE WORD CAREFULLY,MEDITATE AND ONLY SHARE WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADS YOU TO SHARE.DONT ADD OR REMOVE.BIBLE WARNS..

[Last Daze]

19 hours ago, Mussa Jakotis said:

REVELATION MAN SEAMS TO HAVE RE-ASSEMBLED EVERYTHING IN BOOK OF REVELATION AND THIS CAN CAUSE CONFUSSION.LETS ALLOW THE LORD TO HELP US UNDERSTAND ISSUES  THAT CONCERN END TIME.ITS REVELATION THAT NEED TO COME FROM DEEP PRAYERS  AND READING OF THE WORD CAREFULLY,MEDITATE AND ONLY SHARE WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADS YOU TO SHARE.DONT ADD OR REMOVE.BIBLE WARNS..

Amen.  We all need to spend time humbly before God and listen to what the Spirit is saying.  

[not an echo]

On 5/6/2020 at 12:24 AM, Revelation Man said:

I don't know what the Cards in White show, I see nothing...

The "Cards in White" are just simple visuals that I worked up to illustrate a feature of The Revelation and something I have seen concerning how God inspired John to record things.  For example, the first 10 "Cards in White" do not overlap at all, but are kinda like stepping stones in a side walk.  But, the next 10 cards consistently overlap, kinda like shingles or siding on a house, only I show them running horizontally instead of vertically (you wouldn't want to do that on a house ).  Finally, the last two cards are joined together, kinda like a French or a folding door.  With these thoughts in mind, consider again...

The first 10 chapters of The Revelation are in the strictest chronological order possible.  One thing leads into another thing, which leads into another thing, and so forth throughout the first 10 chapters---without fail.  No back and forth, no overlap, no repeating of anything, just chronological information laid out as simply as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10.  Following is an illustration of how straightforward the first 10 chapters are laid out:

Beginning with chapter 11, there is a difference in the manner in which John records things.  This difference is closely related to what he writes concerning the 7th Trumpet in verses 15-19, for what he here records is like a concise overview of what will be taking place throughout the next several chapters.  In accord with the way the Bible's chapters are divided (which I attribute to the hand of God!), it appears that after John is given the brief overview of this period, he uses an overlapping method of recording all of the details of it---again, without fail.  Following is an illustration of the overlapping method in which chapters 11 through 20 are laid out:

Finally, the last two chapters of The Revelation also continue chronologically, but as a whole, and reveal John's vision of God's Heaven and the conclusion of The Revelation, as well as The Bible:

Simplified further, that's 10 chapters with no overlapping pattern, 10 chapters with an overlapping pattern, and two chapters as a unit.

On 5/6/2020 at 12:24 AM, Revelation Man said:

But, you get off tracked here by not realizing all of those chapters save 16 well, maybe 15&16 which are like the same thing as per timing, one happens in heaven and the other on earth, are Parenthetical Chapters that fit into the Judgment Chapters. 

Rev. 6 the Seals are Opened and Jesus basically Prophesies in real time what is about to befall mankind with each Seal, but they don't start until the 1st Trump. Revelation 7  is the Jews {144,000} Fleeing, Judea they are in the millions, 144,000 is a NUMBER that represents the FULL NUMBER THEREIN that Repents. Thus the number 12 = fullness and thus 12 x 12,000 = ALL Israel [who repent, then flees Judea]. 

Rev. 8, 9, 15&16 is the full 42 months of the Beasts reign. PERIOD, it ends at Rev. 16:19, the Angel even says IT IS DONE. The other Chapters are Parenthetical Citations, meaning they are INTERWOVEN with these 4 Judgment Chapters. 

Rev. 10 is a FLASH FORWARD to the 7 Thunders {Trumps} and how there will be TIME NO MORE when the 7th Thunder {Trump} sounds. Its a paradigm change so to speak. Mankind no longer rules, Jesus and God will...

As I have come to see things, The Revelation has an amazingly wonderful order and symmetry, which is a testimony to its Divine inspiration.  But Revelation Man, till we are able to see together concerning the first three verses of The Revelation (what I consider its foundation), I don't believe we will ever be able to find an edifying place of agreement.  And please don't think that I am only meaning this with you.  I mean this with any brothers and sisters in Christ that aren't yet anchored into the foundation.  As for you and I, we discussed concerning these verses earlier in this thread (beginning on page 2), but we did not (at that time) find a place of agreement.  Can we take another look at those first three verses?  Consider again from Revelation chapter one:

  1   The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass;  and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John:

  2   Who bare record of the Word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

  3   Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein:  for the time is at hand.

The way I see the simplicity of these words, it's kinda like this:  If the grandmother lets the family know that the turkey will be done shortly---that the time is at hand---she may scratch her head a little if no one shows up for dinner until sometime the following day!  Though she would certainly still love them all , can you imagine the conversation that might be had?!?  Now, more in tune with the above three verses, if the commander gives an early morning announcement that the battle will shortly come to pass---that the time is at hand---it would probably pay the soldiers to go on and get out of their bunks, don't you think???

I pray you are beginning to see what I mean...

Edited January 27, 2023 by not an echo
to reset illustrations