Does Paul tells us WHEN the rapture will come?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

...

There is no biblical support (none)  for a 360 day year.   It is contrary to the written ordinances of God.   They shall not pass away until all things written in the law have been fulfilled.   

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Genesis 7:11

And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. Genesis 7:24

And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. Genesis 8:4

Note: seventh month 17th day MINUS the second month, 17th day, equals 5 months. 

The writer tells us this was also 150 days. 150 divided by 5  = 30 day months. 

Anyway, your mind is made up so nothing I show you will change it. All I can do is remind you again that John wrote 1260 days as the half week, and 42 months as the half week. But you seem to know more than John. 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

If you define midpoint of the 70th week as a prophesied point in time, by a specific# of days,  then no I do not.   Your mistake comes from changing the times and laws (of months, seasons and years)  that God has ordained to ones that are not. 

The PuP

I told you to look at the word midst in Rev. 9:27. It is a Hebrew word that means to divide in half. 

One day I was reading that verse, and when my eyes and my mind got to the word "Midst" sudden God spoke to me: I  heard His voice and His words:   "You could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in the book of Revelation.." 

So I have two differing opinions: Jesus, the head of the church told me I could find "that exact midpoint" and you are telling me there is no midpoint. I am going to go with what Jesus said. If I were you, I would rethink your position. John PROVEs a midpoint by 5 mentions of 3.5 years for the last half of the week. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

I think you mean Daniel 9:27.

And I think that you are alluding to when the sacrifices cease.   Now,  where do you associate 1260 days,  from Daniel,  with the sacrifices ceasing? Daniel 12:11 says that time in the "midst" of the week involves 1290 days.   Your "midst" is "midstaken".

As far as Noah goes,  I can't disagree that (before the flood and before the law was given)  that a month was not 30 days.   Different societies reckon time differently in those days.   E.g. the book of Enoch has a month of 28 days and a year as being 364 days,  or 13 months of 28 days (4 weeks). Let me reemphasize,   this was before the law was given.   In the law,  a month is deemed as the time from one new moon to the next new moon.   And a year is defined by the growing of crops... according to the sun.   The beginning of months is the time of the 1st full moon in which the barley is aviv, or abib.  That is god's laws.  He doesn't change.   Those who are anti-god want to change times and laws that God has ordained.  They think they can,  but they can't. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP

I was speaking of how God counted time in prophecy, not in reality. Perhaps when Adam walked the earth, a month WAS 30 days. 

Yes, I was referring to DANIEL 9:27. Sorry. Occasionally my fingers type something different than my mind is thinking.  

The idea of a midpoint in the 70th week came first from Daniel and his use of the word "midst:"  to divide in half. It was translated as "midnight" several times. Then Daniel in chapter 7 wrote that the saints would  be given into the "little Horn's" hands for 3.5 years. This is the first hint that the week would be 7 years divided into two halves. Then again in chapter 12 Daniel wrote:  

⁷ And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Again we have Daniel telling us that the last half of the week would be 3.5 years. (using "times")  We might add  here, the starting point would be the point of division of the week, or the midpoint. In Daniel  12:1 that is when Michael stands up. In Revelation that is marked by the 7th trumpet. 

Daniel did not understand. So another answer was given him.

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Remember before the starting point was when Michael stood up, and the days of GT would begin - so the midpoint.  In verse 11 it gives us the very same starting point two more times: when the daily sacrifice is taken away OR when the abomination is     set up: which is the very same time.  So Daniel how has three events that mark the starting point  But here, Daniel is given a different ENDING point.

Why a different  ending? For that we must study Revelation. There we see the week ending at the 7th vial, but jesus NOT returning.  It will be some unknown time after the 7th vial when Jesus returns. Perhaps this extra 30 days. Jesus will be in heaven at the marriage supper.  Putting both these verses together,  the WEEK ends at the 3.5 year mark, but the Beast and False prophet are still alive. SOME unknown event will take place 30 days after the 7th vial. 

Therefore, the "week" is ironclad. Set in stone, so to speak: 1260 days and 1260 days. We have 7 verses confirming the length of the half week. 42 months  and 42 months.

My "midst" then is Daniel and John's "midst." It should be YOUR  "midst."

[Behold]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:47 PM, iamlamad said:

What does Paul really teach about the rapture? Does he gives us ANY timing information?

 

The Rapture will occur just before the Great Tribulation starts.

So, if you can discern when this is going to start, by noticing why it does......then you are right on Target.

Why does the Great Tribulation start?  Because the reason for the Anti'Christ to show up, is IN progress.

Thats why.  

The situation that BRINGS in the man of sin, is the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

And what will bring him here is WHY the Great Tribulation is in progress.   And that will be a worldwide (Global Economic Crisis).

Governments will be bankrupt, people will be starving, crazy....and then "in comes the devil".

So, right there, is the Great Tribulation, in progress, and right before this, the Bride Hits THE SKY.

I hope its in about 30 seconds.

COME LORD JESUS !

Edited April 14, 2020 by Behold

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, Behold said:

The Rapture will occur just before the Great Tribulation starts.

So, if you can discern when this is going to start, by noticing why it does......then you are right on Target.

Why does the Great Tribulation start?  Because the reason for the Anti'Christ to show up, is IN progress.

Thats why.  

The situation that BRINGS in the man of sin, is the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

And what will bring him here is WHY the Great Tribulation is in progress.   And that will be a worldwide (Global Economic Crisis).

Governments will be bankrupt, people will be starving, crazy....and then "in comes the devil".

So, right there, is the Great Tribulation, in progress, and right before this, the Bride Hits THE SKY.

I hope its in about 30 seconds.

COME LORD JESUS !

BEhold, can you show us some scripture to back up your thoughts on the finances of the world? 
Are you saying you don't think there will be a whole 7 years - or are you saying that the whole 7 years will be GT?

[luigi]

14 hours ago, Behold said:

The Rapture will occur just before the Great Tribulation starts.

 

Are you just looking at developed nations? You should tell the Rapture is going to occur just before the Great Tribulation starts to the great number of Christians throughout many countries experiencing increasing persecutions and death.

[iamlamad]

28 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

So how do you know that there are 30 extra days when some unknown event is going to take place?... because you are assuming that there are 2520 days in 7 years (1260 in 3.5).  You started out saying that the sacrifices ceased in the midst of 7 years (equal to time times and a half), but somehow there are 30 extra days,  because 1290 is 30 more than when the "midst" of the week occurs at day 1260..."because 7 years equals 2520 days (assumption".  It's all based on the assumption that a month equals 30 days.  Your theory has you between a rock and a hard place.   I think that you believe that a month is not 30 days long,  but to believe so would wreak havoc on your understanding of things... so you can't change what you believe. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP

I am just a simple person. When I read something in the bible, I just believe it. When John showed us five different times that the half week is 1260 days or 42 months or 3.5 years, I believe him. What I don't understand is why others DON'T believe him. 

Sorry, there is no rock and no hard place. Daniel 12 tells us the week ends in 3.5 years which agrees with John in Rev. 12. 

Now, if John had not written his book, and Daniel was all we had, perhaps your argument would hold water. Since John did write, and showed us clearly that the half week is 1260 days, then what YOU do with the 1290 came out of human imagination, not scripture. 

We see more confirmation in Revelation: the week ends at the 7th vial, Rev. 16, yet Jesus coming is not until chapter 19. In spite of what you think, TIME PASSES when you flip a page in Revelation. There is TIME between the 7th vial and Jesus' coming. Is it possible that time is the time between 1260 days and 1290 days? Just saying....

[Behold]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

BEhold, can you show us some scripture to back up your thoughts on the finances of the world? 
Are you saying you don't think there will be a whole 7 years - or are you saying that the whole 7 years will be GT?

thx for the question.

 

Just like...... there are no agreements regarding when the Rapture will occur, or what most of the  end time symbols in the NT actually mean, i dont try to prove what no one can totally understand.

So, what i do, is use the simple basic concept of "rightly dividing the word" is also to  understood  "seasons" "times",  = as  dispensations.

Dispensational teaching, is simply the spiritual logic that is revealed as the inevitable result of realizing that the entire bible is God progressively revealing How He did it and How He is doing it, and How He is going to do it, later, and finally.

The bible is God revealing of how He is dealing with MAN, at any given time, since time began, and the bible was given to show you.. from Gen <> Rev.

The bible is basically one part TIMES "being revealed" and one part "how to get the Righteousness of God as your own".   

So, there are situations in the bible, "times" where God was doing one thing, and then starts doing something different.   And this is not God changing, its only God revealing what He's been doing and will be doing next...ect.

Consider that the Old Testament and the New Testament are not the same covenant. They 2 different TESTAMENTS that reveal what was BEFORE, and what is NOW.

And so, when you bring in this spiritual logic, and look at where we are in '2020, as related to what God is doing and will soon do differently, then that is how you discern what to USE to determine how to see what is clearly being shown.

Here is what we know.   We know that we are in a certain time in History that God has revealed as "the time of the gentiles"...We know this.  And we know that this is going to end, and the ending of one is the begining of the next "time" or season, as that is How God connects all the Dots of Revelation.

The only thing we the Church really know about the "end times" is that the Rapture is going to happen, the Devil is going to come and take Global power unto himself, and that this 7 yrs  has a title.

We know that this will end, that Jesus will reign and the Born Again with Him........ the devil will be chained then later that changes..........etc.  We know the BASICS..

So, because we KNOW that the devil is coming , as a man, as a beast, as a son of perdition, and by the way have you been taught that the resurrected JUDAS is the anti-christ?   Yeah, that is just one more teaching that is available "out there" regarding the ID of  "man of sin", along with "tribulation salvation"....  But , thats all very veiled and  Theological skeptics will butt heads....

I just leave all that to those who worry about it, and just cut to the chase.   The chase is....WHY is the devil-man coming to RULE this earth for 7 yrs?   And if you can conclude/discern why, then you have all sorts of revelations that line up.  

He has to have a reason to come.....bottom line.          He is a man of Peace.  So, that tells you that he is coming into a Global situation that is "deep fear-panic-worldwide"...as it take PEACE to solve Global fear.. and He is that "man of peace".  Also, the world is looking for a savior....and they will be fooled by "signs and wonders" that he produces..

The bottom line is.......there has to be a Global Crisis REASON for him to show up to RESOLVE, as that is what is going to bring him here so that he can be perceived to be the SOLUTION AS= the World LEADER or the Global RULER..   

It will take a Global Crisis.   and that has to be a World War or a Global Economic Collapse.     I say its going to be the Economic issue, as this touches all people, whereas a WWar, can be a more selective misery and not touch each life deeply in the exact same way..  Whereas if all are starving because money has no value in the world  to allow you to BUY anything....... that is a INSANE GLOBAL CRISIS that is not even imaginable.... And so, in comes the devil.

So, all that is why i teach "global economic collapse" brings in the Anti-christ.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Behold

[iamlamad]

On 4/15/2020 at 9:00 AM, Behold said:

thx for the question.

 

Just like...... there are no agreements regarding when the Rapture will occur, or what most of the  end time symbols in the NT actually mean, i dont try to prove what no one can totally understand.

So, what i do, is use the simple basic concept of "rightly dividing the word" is also to  understood  "seasons" "times",  = as  dispensations.

Dispensational teaching, is simply the spiritual logic that is revealed as the inevitable result of realizing that the entire bible is God progressively revealing How He did it and How He is doing it, and How He is going to do it, later, and finally.

The bible is God revealing of how He is dealing with MAN, at any given time, since time began, and the bible was given to show you.. from Gen <> Rev.

The bible is basically one part TIMES "being revealed" and one part "how to get the Righteousness of God as your own".   

So, there are situations in the bible, "times" where God was doing one thing, and then starts doing something different.   And this is not God changing, its only God revealing what He's been doing and will be doing next...ect.

Consider that the Old Testament and the New Testament are not the same covenant. They 2 different TESTAMENTS that reveal what was BEFORE, and what is NOW.

And so, when you bring in this spiritual logic, and look at where we are in '2020, as related to what God is doing and will soon do differently, then that is how you discern what to USE to determine how to see what is clearly being shown.

Here is what we know.   We know that we are in a certain time in History that God has revealed as "the time of the gentiles"...We know this.  And we know that this is going to end, and the ending of one is the begining of the next "time" or season, as that is How God connects all the Dots of Revelation.

The only thing we the Church really know about the "end times" is that the Rapture is going to happen, the Devil is going to come and take Global power unto himself, and that this 7 yrs  has a title.

We know that this will end, that Jesus will reign and the Born Again with Him........ the devil will be chained then later that changes..........etc.  We know the BASICS..

So, because we KNOW that the devil is coming , as a man, as a beast, as a son of perdition, and by the way have you been taught that the resurrected JUDAS is the anti-christ?   Yeah, that is just one more teaching that is available "out there" regarding the ID of  "man of sin", along with "tribulation salvation"....  But , thats all very veiled and  Theological skeptics will butt heads....

I just leave all that to those who worry about it, and just cut to the chase.   The chase is....WHY is the devil-man coming to RULE this earth for 7 yrs?   And if you can conclude/discern why, then you have all sorts of revelations that line up.  

He has to have a reason to come.....bottom line.          He is a man of Peace.  So, that tells you that he is coming into a Global situation that is "deep fear-panic-worldwide"...as it take PEACE to solve Global fear.. and He is that "man of peace".  Also, the world is looking for a savior....and they will be fooled by "signs and wonders" that he produces..

The bottom line is.......there has to be a Global Crisis REASON for him to show up to RESOLVE, as that is what is going to bring him here so that he can be perceived to be the SOLUTION AS= the World LEADER or the Global RULER..   

It will take a Global Crisis.   and that has to be a World War or a Global Economic Collapse.     I say its going to be the Economic issue, as this touches all people, whereas a WWar, can be a more selective misery and not touch each life deeply in the exact same way..  Whereas if all are starving because money has no value in the world  to allow you to BUY anything....... that is a INSANE GLOBAL CRISIS that is not even imaginable.... And so, in comes the devil.

So, all that is why i teach "global economic collapse" brings in the Anti-christ.

It will take a Global Crisis.   and that has to be a World War or a Global Economic Collapse.  No, I disagree: it is going to take the sudden disappearance of half the earth's population: those in Christ plus all the children of the world under the age of accountability.  Parents around the world will be going crazy wondering what happened to their children. It is going to be worldwide panic 

The only thing we the Church really know about the "end times" is that the Rapture is going to happen, the Devil is going to come and take Global power unto himself, and that this 7 yrs  has a title.  This is really not true either: we know much more: that the trumpet judgments will come in the first half of the week, and the vials in the last half. Wee know that some little time after the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God, the man of sin will turn beast and shortly after that the False Prophet will show up. And shortly after that, days of great tribulation such as the world hass never seen will come. 

However, you may well be right, that there will be a financial crisis on top of half the world disappearing. And there may well be a world war going on right after the sudden disappearance.  Thanks for answering!

Edited April 16, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

On 4/15/2020 at 7:49 AM, Da Puppers said:

So how do you know that there are 30 extra days when some unknown event is going to take place?... because you are assuming that there are 2520 days in 7 years (1260 in 3.5).  You started out saying that the sacrifices ceased in the midst of 7 years (equal to time times and a half), but somehow there are 30 extra days,  because 1290 is 30 more than when the "midst" of the week occurs at day 1260..."because 7 years equals 2520 days (assumption".  It's all based on the assumption that a month equals 30 days.  Your theory has you between a rock and a hard place.   I think that you believe that a month is not 30 days long,  but to believe so would wreak havoc on your understanding of things... so you can't change what you believe. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP

You can place that extra 30 days anywhere you want. I believe Daniel is clear: and not hard to understand: the 1290, exactly like the 1335, is for some event AFTER the 70th week has finished. By the way, Daniel did not ask about the midpoint Start of those days, he was asking about the END off that time. I am not assuming ANYTHING. If you don't like John's use of the 1260 days, you will have to ask Him. He shows us that the 1260 days are EQUAL to Daniel's 3.5 years.  It is the time, according to Daniel, that the Little Horn will exercise Authority over the saints. And for John, that is 42 months. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by iamlamad