The Mark of the Beast (what it really is explained)

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, Josheb said:

And I have answered that question. The mark of the best and Christ's coming in judgment in clouds occurred in 70 AD. 

Sorry--I may have missed it.

Could you explain why you think this, and define/describe the two?

[Alive]

8 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I could, but I prefer the posts be read through so I don't have to repeat already-posted content and the practice of asking and answering already discussed content is not rewarded. 

 

It will come down to this: Am I being asked, 

"When did the mark of the beast and the coming in judgment in the clouds as scripture defines those terms happen?"

or am I being asked, 

"When did the mark and the coming judgment as your eschatology defines those terms happen?" 

Because the two are not the same and I can answer the first question but no one can answer the second. Dispensationalists have been trying to answer the second question for about 190 years and have a 100% fail rate. Scores and scores and scores of attempts, not a single one of them ever correct. 

I only wish to know what you think at this point in time.

[iamlamad]

4 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I could, but I prefer the posts be read through so I don't have to repeat already-posted content and the practice of asking and answering already discussed content is not rewarded. 

 

It will come down to this: Am I being asked, 

"When did the mark of the beast and the coming in judgment in the clouds as scripture defines those terms happen?"

or am I being asked, 

"When did the mark and the coming judgment as your eschatology defines those terms happen?" 

Because the two are not the same and I can answer the first question but no one can answer the second. Dispensationalists have been trying to answer the second question for about 190 years and have a 100% fail rate. Scores and scores and scores of attempts, not a single one of them ever correct. 

How can something that is future be proven to have happened in the past: unless the same prophesied event happens twice?

Before the mark of the Beast will (some unknown time in our future) be created, the False Prophet must show up.

Before the False Prophet shows up, the first Beast must be revealed (seen in the temple proclaiming he is God)

Before the man of sin can enter the temple, the temple must be rebuilt.

Sometime before the man of sin enters the temple, the FIRST HALF of the 70th week must take place: the 7 trumpet judgments.

No trumpet judgment (written inside the book) can possibly take place until the 7th seal is opened first.

The 7th seal must wait on the 6th seal and start of the Day of the Lord and His wrath.

Before the Day of His wrath, the church will be caught up into heaven - and WE ARE STILL HERE.

Conclusion: it is very very difficult (like impossible) to find future events sometime in our past. Preterists have tired and failed so many times by now. 

[iamlamad]

29 minutes ago, Alive said:

Sorry--I may have missed it.

Could you explain why you think this, and define/describe the two?

Ha! EVERYONE Missed that event! the WORLD missed that event because it is still future! His explanation will be in futility. 

[Alive]

I am open to hear the opinions of my brothers.

There are two handfuls of people on this forum who are 'certain' of their respective views on end times who have opposing views.

Some say the 'Lord' revealed things to them...either one is correct or none are correct.

:-)

[iamlamad]

38 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Does that mean you are the arbiter of scripture? How do you avoid the result of you being authoritative over scripture and not scripture having authority over you? 

I assume so, but I will ask any way: Do you understand scripture "makes sense" when understood as a whole, and when scripture defines itself (as opposed to having the latest news reports define it)?

I let scripture define scripture when it does. Usually God says something more than once so we have some event described in more than one way. Occasionally, God says something only once or only in one place in scripture. We must understand it by that one passage in that case. 

Example: John saw a great dragon in the heavens, along with a good description of Virgo. This may be the only place in scripture that the virgin is linked with Virgo and the  constellation of Draco the Dragon, as if ready to devour Virgo's child. 

There is not much help anywhere else in the bible. These verses, the first 5 verses of chapter 12 are written in a midpoint chapter of the future 70th week. Do they have anything to do with the midpoint of the week? No, absolutely nothing. But the chapter - chapter 12, is about the Dragon, the devil, mentioned 32 times in the chapter. It seems while Jesus was showing John what the Dragon would be doing during the last half of the future 70th week, He CHOSE to show John was the Dragon did when He, Jesus, was a very young child. The Dragon tried to murder Jesus using King Herod. I take those first five verses as a parenthesis. 

No one has authoritative power over scripture: we either understand it correctly as per the intent of the Author, or we don't. I find many on these threads have a great imagination when it comes to scripture. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

I completely agree. Scripture has defined the matter and it has not defined the matter in a manner consistent with this op. 

And I have answered that question. The mark of the best and Christ's coming in judgment in clouds occurred in 70 AD. 

Ad hominem is intellectual dishonesty.

So we're done here. Sad that had to happen. Don't know why so many in Worthy can't not post ad hominem, but I've figured it out and choose not to collaborate with those who practice such content. 

All this is personal opinion...and an opinion shared by few believers today. 

The mark of the Beast and Christ's coming is future. 

Proof? Scripture tells us what WHEN he comes next, He will catch the church up. This has not happened and is plain for all to see: we are still here. If it is for his 3rd coming, Sorry, He STAYS with that coming, and that too is proven to be future for NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN HIm. Especially when "all eyes will see Him." 

Perhaps YOU Have seen him?

[Gideon]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I let scripture define scripture when it does. Usually God says something more than once so we have some event described in more than one way. Occasionally, God says something only once or only in one place in scripture. We must understand it by that one passage in that case. 

Example: John saw a great dragon in the heavens, along with a good description of Virgo. This may be the only place in scripture that the virgin is linked with Virgo and the  constellation of Draco the Dragon, as if ready to devour Virgo's child. 

There is not much help anywhere else in the bible. These verses, the first 5 verses of chapter 12 are written in a midpoint chapter of the future 70th week. Do they have anything to do with the midpoint of the week? No, absolutely nothing. But the chapter - chapter 12, is about the Dragon, the devil, mentioned 32 times in the chapter. It seems while Jesus was showing John what the Dragon would be doing during the last half of the future 70th week, He CHOSE to show John was the Dragon did when He, Jesus, was a very young child. The Dragon tried to murder Jesus using King Herod. I take those first five verses as a parenthesis. 

No one has authoritative power over scripture: we either understand it correctly as per the intent of the Author, or we don't. I find many on these threads have a great imagination when it comes to scripture. 

And who is the final judge of what the intent of the author was? What you do not see is that your take on things in scripture is simply your take. You may quote other esteemed men of God but you are simply mirroring their take. 

Ultimately, each one of us is going to give account for how we lived in light of the understanding we ourselves  had. Do you understand you can be wrong about the return of Christ? Perhaps you are right, perhaps not, but it would be far wiser to say "In my opinion...." than to act as if any who see things differently than you are somehow totally misled. Just some rhing to think about.

blessings,

Gids 

[The_Truth_Seeker]

Reality is all the evidence points towards something that is physical.

The question is what manner of deception will be used against the people in order for them to accept the mark of the beast?

Here are questions I find myself asking now, is the first beast, and when I think of the seven heads and ten horns, could this be a relation to the G7 (Group of Seven) and G10 (Group of Ten).

Now could the second beast be in relation to the Health Care and Pharmaceuticals sector?

We see today so much that is going on, that there is one common element we see, "Social Distancing"

If the economies are collapsing because of this Covid 19 pandemic, and we are seeing places today that are afraid to touch physical money, and if this disease gets more out of control, and to avoid major lockdowns, how then will one be able to continue buy what they need but at the same time maintain social distancing? There is only one way, a electronic implant using contactless technology. Contactless payments is the only method that can maintain social distancing but at same time allow a person to pay for goods and services.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iamlamad]

28 minutes ago, Gideon said:

And who is the final judge of what the intent of the author was? What you do not see is that your take on things in scripture is simply your take. You may quote other esteemed men of God but you are simply mirroring their take. 

Ultimately, each one of us is going to give account for how we lived in light of the understanding we ourselves  had. Do you understand you can be wrong about the return of Christ? Perhaps you are right, perhaps not, but it would be far wiser to say "In my opinion...." than to act as if any who see things differently than you are somehow totally misled. Just some rhing to think about.

blessings,

Gids 

Added later: of course, the AUTHOR HIMSELF is the final judge! He dwells inside us! He is our teacher.

God has given each of us the Holy Spirit. He is our teacher. Each person must learn how to get the Holy Spirit to teach. It is something that CAN BE taught and learned. He does not automatically teach every believer. 

When God has taught me, I can then say I know the intent of the Author, for HE taught me. On other things, I must say "in my opinion." As for "my take:" on many things in Revelation, it is not "my take" but "HIS take," because He taught me.  As an example, He sent me to find "the exact midpoint" of the 70th week "clearly marked." He told me the entire 70th week was "clearly marked" meaning the beginning and the ending. He told me that He used the same marker for the midpoint, beginning and ending.  Now I know that the entire 70th week is marked by 7's: the 7th seal, the 7th trumpet and the 7th bowl. Why would I be persuaded by a counterfeit theory when I have heard from the Master? 

On things He has not taught, I am, like everyone else, left with human reasoning. I have then only my opinion. I will add, once one has the "foundation" built by the master, human reasoning may be easier.

Edited July 6, 2020 by iamlamad